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Sound Devices CL-12 Pricing Survey


Matt Bacon AMPS

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I would be grateful if mixers working in mainland Europe could post up the price of the Sound Devices CL-12 at their local dealers who are selling the . 

The U.K. list prices were announced this week as £1950+VAT for the standard and £2850+VAT for the P&G version. At first glance these appear to be almost 50% more than the U.S. prices and 34% more than some European prices (before any Tax applied).

Now of course shipping to Europe and local import taxes need to be applied and factored in but even with these the prices announced seem to me to be far higher than compared to other SD products. 

I have already been in contact with SD who have promised to review the pricing (not yet promised to lower it though) and it would be helpful to have as much information about prices elsewhere when they come back to me next week. 

Thank you.

These are some prices I have already found...

€1995 +VAT
http://www.nagrit.com/catalog/sound-devices-linear-fader-controller-for-the-series-p-4554.html

€2995 +VAT
http://www.nagrit.com/catalog/sound-devices-alaia-linear-fader-controller-for-the-series-p-4555.html

€2380+VAT
http://gruppe3.de/preislisten/23/SD-0020

€3620+VAT
http://gruppe3.de/preislisten/23/SD-0025

€2235+VAT
http://www.noyzboyz.nl/Producten/sound-devices/Recorder/sound-devices-cl12

€3395+VAT
http://www.noyzboyz.nl/Producten/sound-devices/Recorder/sound-devices-cl12-alaia-blonde-maple

€2235 / €3395 (Alaia) +VAT
http://www.aemstore.nl/Locatie-Audio/Mixers/Tabletop-mixers/Sound-Devices-CL-12/

Edited by mattbacon
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That's true Brickbeard. It does say on the website. 

That would make little difference though as Matt has listed the UK prices as also requiring VAT addition at 20%.

Including both countries VAT and based on current exchange rates :

UK price basic CL12 = £2340

Nagrit (Italy) CL12  = £1737

Big difference. 

 

I think Matt is questioning this pricing because shipping to mainland Europe is roughly the same as the UK. Any additional cost incurred by European standards testing and alteration apply to both countries equally. 

I'm not sure of Italy's import tax on items, but even with the UK it should only be about 3 to 4% on an item like the CL12. Dealer margins may vary between countries, but are unlikely to reflect the kind of difference Matt is pointing to. 

 

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UK price basic CL12 = £2340

Nagrit (Italy) CL12  = £1737

Big difference. 

 

It's much easier and fairer to the company to compare prices without VAT added. Sound Devices won't benefit from it at all as they don't get to keep it and many professions can reclaim the VAT, so it's irrelevant for them, too. 

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It's much easier and fairer to the company to compare prices without VAT added. Sound Devices won't benefit from it at all as they don't get to keep it and many professions can reclaim the VAT, so it's irrelevant for them, too. 

I only gave the complete figure in answer to Brickbeards post. It illustrates that the 'almost-the-same' VAT rates as irrelevant to the price differential. 

Matt has sensibly listed them ex VAT. At current exchange rates between £ and € prices ex VAT on the basic CL12 would be :

UK  = £1950

ITALY = £1424

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The first two on the list are from an italian dealer so you have to add IVA (VAT) that is +22% on that amount

Hi, you are correct that Value Added Tax (VAT) would need to be applied prior to purchase. I have made it clearer in my original post this what I meant.  I am VAT registered so could claim back any VAT applied and it is easier to compare prices ex-VAT. 

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The first two on the list are from an italian dealer so you have to add IVA (VAT) that is +22% on that amount

Not if you are UK Vat registered. It is just a matter of giving the Italian supplier your registration number and it just becomes a paper exchange.

 

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It's still a bit surprising that UK prices are so much higher. It cannot be explained with higher import tax, as that is a EU tax, I believe. 

Sure, daily cost, in particular rent, are higher in the UK (England anyway), but by that much? 

You should really all buy the CL-12 (and other things) in other EU countries, where they are cheaper. That is one of the positive things of being in the EU, it's really easy to buy in another country. And if you have a VAT ID, the dealer won't even add VAT so you don't need to reclaim it, so it's even easier, perhaps, than buying at home. 

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The problem seems more to be that some European distributors are (or were)  "officially" not allowed by SD to sell outside their respective countries (EU) 
That's what at least Luigi D'Anzelmo from Nagrit told me in 2009 when I was planning to buy a 788T from him. Because at that time the person in charge of the Spanish SD distribution was a joke...
Don't know if things have changed now

Edited by efksound
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Any suggestion that dealers in Europe aren't allowed to export to other countries in the EU sounds very, very illegal.

Looking at the legal info Matt dug up elsewhere I think you are correct. A market share of over 30% on a product seems to allow the parent company some restrictions, but buyers are still allowed to 'passively' approach distributors in other EU countries or purchase online. Restricting that appears to break EU law.

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Any suggestion that dealers in Europe aren't allowed to export to other countries in the EU sounds very, very illegal.

All the responses from SD dealers I have passively contacted in mainland Europe have so far said they are not able to deliver to the uk because of their agreement with SD. 

Now until I speak with the appropriate authorities this week in the UK about this, it all sounds rather illegal to me. 

If I have understood European Anti-Competitive Practice (http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-10-138_en.htm) it would seem that SD might in for a sticky position and will have some explaining to do. 

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Thank you for sharing your concern over the CL-12 price in the UK.

Note that Sound Devices does not have any sales policy or agreements that conflicts with EU Trade Law.

Each company independently sets their pricing based on what they determine is appropriate based on their purchase price from Sound Devices, the cost to import and bring the products to a local market. We try and work closely with our Distribution partners  so they can meet our recommended resale price.

We will review the point of your concern with our Distribution partners.

Our goal is that you have easy access to our products at a fair price with outstanding support!

Ed

Ed Capp

Vice President of Sales and Marketing

Sound Devices, LLC

 

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Lets just deal with this VAT thing.

Lets assume you are buying from a company in another EU country, and you are VAT registered, say Germany..

Lets assume you are buying from a different EU country (say the UK), and you are VAT registered.

So for the purpose of this example, I am buying from UK, and I am VAT registered, and I am buying from a (say) German company, and they are VAT registered.

I will provide my VAT number to the German company.

They will charge no VAT on the sale. I will log the purchase on my VAT return, and will be charged VAT at UK rates on the purchase. I can reclaim that VAT as I am registered in the UK.

The net effect is that I will pay no VAT for the purchase, even though it is from another EU country. This is a good thing.... (but there was  a lot of paperwork done to make it all make sense).

 

Kindest, sb

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Thank you for sharing your concern over the CL-12 price in the UK.

Note that Sound Devices does not have any sales policy or agreements that conflicts with EU Trade Law.

Each company independently sets their pricing based on what they determine is appropriate based on their purchase price from Sound Devices, the cost to import and bring the products to a local market. We try and work closely with our Distribution partners  so they can meet our recommended resale price.

We will review the point of your concern with our Distribution partners.

Our goal is that you have easy access to our products at a fair price with outstanding support!

Ed

Ed Capp

Vice President of Sales and Marketing

Sound Devices, LLC

 

Ed I welcome your reply. Please can you publically clarify your position on the following...

Do you (Sound Devices) or do you not prevent dealers and distributors within the EU from selling to end users in other EU countries??

I ask as I have had two dealers/distributors within the EU refuse to sell to me citing their agreement with Sound Devices?! How are you getting around the European Free Market requirements?

Source: http://europa.eu/youreurope/business/sell-abroad/service-providers/index_en.htm

 

There is no difference between customers anywhere in the EU

EU rules forbid discrimination between service recipients because of their nationality or where they live. This means:

  • you are automatically entitled to receive services from businesses located in other EU countries
  • you may not refuse or accord different treatment to prospective customers from other EU countries unless you have a valid reason to do so.

 

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For those that interested in purchasing a CL-12 in the UK may I continue to suggest you hold fire. 

I have been in contact with both Ed Capp and Vojtech Pokorny at Sound Devices who have both promised to reply to my questions of CL-12 pricing by Friday.

At this point it is my hope they may have convinced Shure to lower their price for the CL-12. 

I have sent an open letter to Sound Devices which I will publish in due course (I will wait for their reply this week so not inflame the discussions further). 

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An interesting question would be if the dealers that refuse to sell SD products abroad have the same policy with Zaxcom or Lectrosonics products or if this only applies to SD.

I don't know which dealers we're talkibg about, of course, but I have bought various Zaxcom and Lectrosonics items in two different dutch shops. Without any problem whatsoever. I bought an SD 442 in a Swiss online shop without trouble, but this was several years ago

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