janjan Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Hi, I'm totally new to location sound. I was invited onto a doc team to do the music but was then asked to cover all the audio. I will be recording both the soundscapes that will be used in the soundtrack and in the music as well as the main boom/lav managing. We will be going into the Northern wilderness for parts of the shoot and will be covering all 4 seasons in different areas of Canada. I've done some reading, asking around, and touching things in stores. I've also spent a lot of time scrolling down your posts but am still feeling spotty. We are filming with a Sony FS7 and FS5 depending on the situation. For our level of production, this is the kit I suggested and my main questions are: Am I missing anything? As in, if I land in a remote forest with this setup, will it work? Am I making any dumb choices? As in, have I listed something unnecessary? - Mixer/Recorder: Sound Devices 633 (The crew is wondering why this is so expensive, I've tried looking at others but there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of options or I'm missing something. Open to suggestions.) I looked at the Zoom F8 but I read that you cannot mix on the console and that their headphone amp does some colouring. - M/S microphone setup: Sennheiser MKH 50/30 or Sennhesier MKH 8050/30 - Shockmount/Windshield: Rycote Stereo Windshield AE/AG with Connbox or Cinela Pianissimo - Boom: Something used, up to 12ft. - Headphones: I have a pair of Sony 7506 with Velour pads and strangely enough, someone lent me a pair of Sennheiser HD25-1 ii - Pack and Harness: Will know better once I get the mixer, but I picked up a free old Portabrace from Trew Audio's free bin to try! - Cables, etc: Dual XLR3 to XLR5 Cable, XLR5 to XLR3 Adapter, 15' XLR3 Cable (and backups) - Wireless System to send mix to camera: - Wireless lavs: They have some Sennheiser ones - Power: What are your setups in this? Do you go for the big chocolate bars or camera batteries? - Coffee in a Thermos Long post, thank you for reading and reflecting. I appreciate the time and thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
engaudio Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Seems like a big investment on your behalf considering you've never done location audio before.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisnewton Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Sounds like an interesting project Jan. As Grant mentioned, this is a very big investment, especially if you are thinking of buying it yourself. I think a lot depends on what the budget is for the project: can you make a significant amount to make a purchase worthwhile, or is renting the best bet. The kit you have specified is an excellent one. Whatever route you choose to go I would recommend a powering system for the kit, like a BDS system (check Trew or Audio Services Toronto), with rechargeable NP1 or other batteries. The 633 runs a long time with the onboard Sony style 7.2volt batteries also, and a set is relatively inexpensive. Swapping internal batteries will be a major PITA in the bush. Get effective rain protection for the gear. The new KTek rain shield looks good. Also recommend an XLR snake to feed the FS7, just in case. Wireless links are great, but a wired connection can save your butt. re: "Thecrew wonders why this is so expensive" - ask them how much money they have sunk into lenses for the FS7. They ain't cheap, I can tell you. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janjan Posted December 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Thanks for the responses and suggestions. It's a big project and they're very considerate of the role of audio. At the same time, there's a ton to be learned by all of us. I won't be funding the kit myself, thank god. Film will be over the course of a year, so their preference is to purchase. Though, renting is something we're looking at while funding starts to come in. I think they're planning on investing in a kit for future use anyways, so I'm throwing that into consideration with the wishlist. Good point on having a cabled feed just in case. I will look into rain coverage. Thanks for the battery notes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerard-NYNY Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 jan gets a big gold star for getting it right the first time. also there are some great threads on the site about recording music for video, as well as the usual stuff mixers encounter on jobs. dive in and read. there's a lot to be said about the 'problem solving' mindset on here and the advice comes from the folks who, like you, take the job seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Visser Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 I get the impression that your main boom setup is going to be an M-S one... the components seem great, 50/30 combo is hard to beat. But... also get a shock mount to allow for simple single mic mono boom setup, you don't want to be swinging an M-S setup needlessly around most of the time, as a lot of that stereo audio will in fact not be necessary for much of what your likely to encounter. You seem to be missing a shotgun, would be a necessity if much of your shoot is outdoors like I get the impression that it is. 633 is a solid unit, I might even consider a used 552 in your shoes, as low budget (is it?) projects often don't have the time and resources for extensive post production, and handing over a bunch of multi-track recordings might actually be less productive than just turning over a solid mix... the theory that can be mixed better in post doesn't always apply, but good theory. Stay away from the Cinela, I don't think it makes sense for your first mic rig - it's more of a specialized thoroughbred for those that know it abilities and want to live with its complexities (given potential rugged first time field use). Rycote softies are nice and light, and work for most situations. Full zeppelins are still relatively simple and work in more extreme situations, but are much heavier. For your first job, get a short - mid boom. Just realize that later on your going to want multiple booms, including a very long one, some job just can't be done without it. 7506 / HD-25ii... just pick one and use it for the rest of your career. Headphone are not so important to us for sound quality, but for training our ears to get used to the response and being able to trust them as a monitoring tool. bags - know what you need to carry on your person, know what you need to have, but can get away with being a minute away. Don't overload yourself, but make sure you have enough within grasp, it's a fine balance. I've always owned Portabrace bags - I've used most of them here or there, I can tell you right now at this point in time, K-Tek is making the absolute best bags. Cables - you'll never have enough, but too many and you can't find what you need when you need it. None of this means jack shit if you can't power it. Power or lack of it can make you have a bad day. Most people here probably use NP-1 systems. I personally use V-lock and AB camera batteries (I often tell production to provide batteries and camera AC's do all the charging for me when on the road, or use my own personal Sony LiFePO4 / Olivine bricks which fully charge in about 45 minutes. New generation of SMART batteries look like a very smart choice, Jose Frias recently did an excellent writeup on them. get a good knife, carry scissors with dull tips, get to know lots of different types of tapes, know when / why to use moleskin, latex sheaths, figure out why rycote under covers sort of suck, why rycote over covers are awesome, don't be a pushy person but don't be a pushover, stay away from crafty, if you need to drink something (including coffee) try water first, take care of your body (especially the back) which means you should be exercising / stretching in the AM and also after wrap at night, think before you move, once you move, move fast, don't wear pants that the legs zip off - that's some camera department shit right there, if your not OCD already learn how to act like you are (for your own personal affairs), if sound was a chess game it would be won or lost based upon the first couple of moves, and remember... the DP is NOT your boss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Deakin Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Go for the 8000 microphone with the 50 capsule. That way if you need to go cardioid 40 capsule you can just switch unscrew instead of switching the entire mic. Go for the cinela if your going to be doing a lot of ms work. Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shastapete Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 6 hours ago, Tom Visser said: don't wear pants that the legs zip off - that's some camera department shit right there Tom, do you need to lay down on the couch and talk about this. I feel there are some deep seated issues about zipoff pants. I for one have a pair, great for spring/fall when the weather is chilly in the morning but warm in the sun mid day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 You said this is your first location sound job, so I'd recommend to practice booming. A lot. Make sure your body is up to it. It is very easy to underestimate the strain booming puts on you. With the bag get a good harness, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Miramontes Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 I'm wondering if ya'll all being so nice cause she's a female. Normally when a dude comes on to the site asking these questions they get ripped a new butt hole. Just saying. Anyways, we need more women in this field. I'm tired of looking at ya'll. haha JanJan, Welcome to JWsound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 We all benefit from the participation of women in this overly-male-centric occupation. And, yes, they do help keep us more civilized (speaking for myself, anyway). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Visser Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 1 hour ago, Shastapete said: Tom, do you need to lay down on the couch and talk about this. I feel there are some deep seated issues about zipoff pants. I for one have a pair, great for spring/fall when the weather is chilly in the morning but warm in the sun mid day. I bet you saw a camera guy wear them and thought to yourself "what a great idea, I wish I was cool like that" rather than the appropriate response "what a hoser". Does a blacksmith wear zip off pants? No. Does he work in hot environments? Yes. NO! Zip not. Pants or pants not. There is no zip. As for being nice, I think you should be nice to everyone the first time you meet them, that only happens once. Don't continue being nice for just show, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atheisticmystic Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 1 hour ago, Michael Miramontes said: I'm wondering if ya'll all being so nice cause she's a female. Normally when a dude comes on to the site asking these questions they get ripped a new butt hole. Just saying. This...plus...the hypocricy incites the reflective one to come in and snarkity snark snark. best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Reineke Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 FWIW, the F8 has an internal software mixer that can be assigned to an output and/or recorded to the aux stereo tracks. Mixing on-the-fly would be difficult to impossible. Music recording and production sound recording are worlds apart.. a completely different skill set.. especially in unfriendly environments (climatic and social)... though signal flow is a constant. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Rent and try before you buy. The 633 is excellent and rugged and a good choice. I'd get a 416 and a good wind gag for ext dialog. (MS is for ambience, never dialog.) The 50 will be great for dialog too. Do a work flow test with the camera dept. Miramontes is right about the civility of responses for Jan. Perhaps we can do so in the future for all questions from noob's, or no answer if we can't be polite. Or yeah, have fun. That's the most important thing. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Here in Germany Jan is a strictly male name. And while I have met female Jans abroad, I instinctively think male when I read Jan. Rent and try before you buy. The 633 is excellent and rugged and a good choice. I'd get a 416 and a good wind gag for ext dialog. (MS is for ambience, never dialog.) The 50 will be great for dialog too. Do a work flow test with the camera dept. Miramontes is right about the civility of responses for Jan. Perhaps we can do so in the future for all questions from noob's, or no answer if we can't be polite. Or yeah, have fun. That's the most important thing. CrewC I agree about the civility. At the same time, I wouldn't consider it uncivil to let someone know that this job can't be learnt by reading forums and that a lot of practice and experience are required. It's a question, of course, of how to phrase it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janjan Posted December 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Thanks guys! Tom, every detail was noted. I appreciate all the suggestions. I hadn't guessed that you'd need a separate shotgun besides the 50/30 setup, so thanks for that. I'm hoping to go with the standard 416. It's talked about so much, and I want to get to know it. As it turns out, our shoot is starting earlier than expected and before funding comes in, so we will be renting as much gear as possible for the first month. I'm hoping to get a better feel for what the project needs and what I can handle after the first segment is done. Luckily, the crew sees the value of audio. If anything, we're all quickly learning the price tag that comes with putting that into practice. Yes, I'm aware that I'm a minority here and because of that the job presents different challenges. And you're right, there's only so much that can be learned behind a desk. I'm hoping to get the gear as soon as possible so that I can practice with it. I also have some wonderful mentors who've given me basic lessons. Constantin, maybe I'm a man from Germany? Anyways, thank you for the welcome and for letting me keep my original butt-hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VASI Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Don't forget to press the rec button, Jan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Don't forget to press the rec button, Jan. Probably the number one rule. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerard-NYNY Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 I'm wondering if ya'll all being so nice cause she's a female. Normally when a dude comes on to the site asking these questions they get ripped a new butt hole. Just saying. she did not, as others have before her (all male, if i recall correctly) start a thread asking questions from a clueless foundation (recommendations for what to buy, whats the difference between this or that, etc). she obviously did quite a bit of homework before asking and thus, because of that, received a warmer welcome than others who asked the tribe to figure out everything for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanieldH Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 - Wireless lavs: They have some Sennheiser ones Check which ones and what their caveats, block(s) conditions are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atheisticmystic Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 15 hours ago, Gerard-NYNY said: she did not, as others have before her (all male, if i recall correctly) start a thread asking questions from a clueless foundation (recommendations for what to buy, whats the difference between this or that, etc). she obviously did quite a bit of homework before asking and thus, because of that, received a warmer welcome than others who asked the tribe to figure out everything for them. Not (She was going to record DX with an MS set-up.) IMHO, the difference between OP content and others, negligible. The difference in how she was received, marked. Not sayin' nuttin' pejorative...just sayin'. best Steven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerard-NYNY Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 the way i read it, she asked: 'how will this function?' and did not ask the usual question which provoked controversy: 'what should i buy?'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismedr Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 +1 on getting a shotgun (preferably a 416) and checking the sennheiser wireless. if it is more then one channel you might want to get something better then a G3 because i find them to be at their limit on the line level inputs. also +1 on exercising booming, specially with a 8050 MS setup : ) chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 Constantin, maybe I'm a man from Germany? Yes, maybe. In which case I read it right, but if you're not, I didn't. It doesn't really matter either way - to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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