Metacorder with HUI and MHlab or other interface.

[Alan]

Hi,

How many of us here actually use a HUI (Mackie/Euphonix/Tascam) together with the MBP and Metacorder with several interfaces available in the market?

My Plan :-

1) MBP with SSD in the express card slot as the recording media of choice. Dailies on DVD-R

2) Metacorder with MHlab 2882+ and a Mackie HUI mod for 12V.

3) 702T as Backup and TC, Car scene, long walk and talk...........etc etc

4) Com line will be giving up 1 analog input on the MHlab 2882 and do some aux routing with the MIO software.

Will like to hear some feed back on my setup, and also some idea on using a HUI on set.

Alan Chong

[Philip Perkins]

Hi,

How many of us here actually use a HUI (Mackie/Euphonix/Tascam) together with the MBP and Metacorder with several interfaces available in the market?

My Plan :-

1) MBP with SSD in the express card slot as the recording media of choice. Dailies on DVD-R

2) Metacorder with MHlab 2882+ and a Mackie HUI mod for 12V.

3) 702T as Backup and TC, Car scene, long walk and talk...........etc etc

4) Com line will be giving up 1 analog input on the MHlab 2882 and do some aux routing with the MIO software.

Will like to hear some feed back on my setup, and also some idea on using a HUI on set.

Alan Chong

I don't think the original HUI is made anymore--and in any case was kind of big and heavy (and AC powered) for cart use.  The current Mackie Control surfaces can be a bit smaller, (http://www.mackie.com/products/mcupro/splash.html) but again, aren't really made for location use re size and features, but could work.  There was a gent here using a Behringer  BCF 2000 (http://www.behringer.com/BCF2000/index.cfm?lang=ENG) with a Metacorder rig and he liked it quite well--

smaller and cheaper than the Mackie stuff w/ fewer features.  I was not crazy about the latency and feel of mixing on MIDI control surfaces, and with all these things it is hard to know how a configured system will perform until you build it.  I'll be interested in what you end up doing.  There are many MIDI controllers around now, but nothing is really well configured for recording w/ a box like MH or MOTU.  How many tracks do you need to be able to do normally? 

Philip Perkins

[Alan]

I don't think the original HUI is made anymore--and in any case was kind of big and heavy (and AC powered) for cart use.  The current Mackie Control surfaces can be a bit smaller, (http://www.mackie.com/products/mcupro/splash.html) but again, aren't really made for location use re size and features, but could work.  There was a gent here using a Behringer  BCF 2000 (http://www.behringer.com/BCF2000/index.cfm?lang=ENG) with a Metacorder rig and he liked it quite well--

smaller and cheaper than the Mackie stuff w/ fewer features.  I was not crazy about the latency and feel of mixing on MIDI control surfaces, and with all these things it is hard to know how a configured system will perform until you build it.  I'll be interested in what you end up doing.  There are many MIDI controllers around now, but nothing is really well configured for recording w/ a box like MH or MOTU.  How many tracks do you need to be able to do normally? 

Philip Perkins

Phil,

Thanks for your time, I'm talking about the Mackie MCU Pro which is DC 7.5V power, thats a simple feat for us to make it 12V source power. As for number of tracks, lets start with a basic 8 (6+2) tracks first for film and if I need something more I'll add on to it. I also take a look at Euphonix Eucon fader pack, its 15V DC but its currently quite buggy with the MHlab MIO software.

As for mix latency......I do notice that but is it really a big problem? I don't run into major latency problem with my PT and CM automix in my studio rig.

Basically as you can see, I wanted to build something that is similar to my studio setup but without the complexity of using PT.

Next will be the quest to extend my battery life of the MBP , i think we are almost there. I'm not a fan of AC so my 1st priority is always DC DC & DC.

Alan

[Simon Paine]

Yeah, I was thinking of experimenting with a similar setup. I was wondering what this hooked up to a Metric Halo I/O and Mac Mini would be like:

True it isn't DC. Would be great if one of these could be bus powered.

[Philip Perkins]

Phil,

Thanks for your time, I'm talking about the Mackie MCU Pro which is DC 7.5V power, thats a simple feat for us to make it 12V source power. As for number of tracks, lets start with a basic 8 (6+2) tracks first for film and if I need something more I'll add on to it. I also take a look at Euphonix Eucon fader pack, its 15V DC but its currently quite buggy with the MHlab MIO software.

As for mix latency......I do notice that but is it really a big problem? I don't run into major latency problem with my PT and CM automix in my studio rig.

Basically as you can see, I wanted to build something that is similar to my studio setup but without the complexity of using PT.

Next will be the quest to extend my battery life of the MBP , i think we are almost there. I'm not a fan of AC so my 1st priority is always DC DC & DC.

Alan

How much DC does the MCU need?  To me there is way too much real estate devoted to transport controls and other buttons etc. for use on a small cart--hence my interest in the Behringer.  The MIDI latency was weird for me when trying to actively mix tracks, and it will be added to whatever latency is inherent in the software mixer the surface is actually controlling.  I assume that the mixer in the MH software is clean and doesn't have zipper noise--a problem w/ MOTU's CueMix.  Talkback and monitor feeds you could work out on your own many different ways, but they'd be outboard.  What are the issues w/ Eucon and MH--that's disappointing to hear that they don't play well together.  Is there a way to have the faders of any of these look at the input levels (trim) to the interface/preamp in one bank, and then switch banks so that they were making the 2-mix of all those prefade isos down to another set of tracks?

Philip Perkins

[Alan]

How much DC does the MCU need?  To me there is way too much real estate devoted to transport controls and other buttons etc. for use on a small cart--hence my interest in the Behringer.  The MIDI latency was weird for me when trying to actively mix tracks, and it will be added to whatever latency is inherent in the software mixer the surface is actually controlling.  I assume that the mixer in the MH software is clean and doesn't have zipper noise--a problem w/ MOTU's CueMix.  Talkback and monitor feeds you could work out on your own many different ways, but they'd be outboard.  What are the issues w/ Eucon and MH--that's disappointing to hear that they don't play well together.  Is there a way to have the faders of any of these look at the input levels (trim) to the interface/preamp in one bank, and then switch banks so that they were making the 2-mix of all those prefade isos down to another set of tracks?

Philip Perkins

Phil,

The MCU Pro requires a DC7.5V out of the box, as the MHlab MIO it can work with just the fader pack. So if you feel too much is being put into transport control on the MCU Pro you can always go with the 8 Fader Pack and its also DC 7.5V.

Yes the size of EUCON Fader Pack looks attractive to me too. How about remote for Metacorder? Thats why I thought maybe the Transport Control of the MCU PRO comes into play. As for EUCON touch screen, I'm not a big fan of touch screen.

As for your trim setup, I don't think it will allow you to do that, still the same old console style layout, with trim on the V-Pot and fader. Can you do the same with any other Software Mixer? I try a demo locally, although most of my stuff are discuss with Gotham Sound, I hear no zipper noise.

Its a hard decision, knowing my current rig with a PD606 and AD147 mixer works like a charm, but the future offer of a mixing in the box its quite tempting.

Alan

[Philip Perkins]

Phil,

The MCU Pro requires a DC7.5V out of the box, as the MHlab MIO it can work with just the fader pack. So if you feel too much is being put into transport control on the MCU Pro you can always go with the 8 Fader Pack and its also DC 7.5V.

Yes the size of EUCON Fader Pack looks attractive to me too. How about remote for Metacorder? Thats why I thought maybe the Transport Control of the MCU PRO comes into play. As for EUCON touch screen, I'm not a big fan of touch screen.

As for your trim setup, I don't think it will allow you to do that, still the same old console style layout, with trim on the V-Pot and fader. Can you do the same with any other Software Mixer? I try a demo locally, although most of my stuff are discuss with Gotham Sound, I hear no zipper noise.

Its a hard decision, knowing my current rig with a PD606 and AD147 mixer works like a charm, but the future offer of a mixing in the box its quite tempting.

Alan

I meant how much current draw at 7.5 VDC.  The fader packs are certainly more like the size I'd want--can they stand alone w/o the master module?  What I meant about the trims vs channel output faders in banks is that it seems like the MH trims are all software (unlike MOTU), so it would be cool to be able to do that on the faders instead of with a mouse, and then switch over to the channel faders for making a dailies mix.  I guess you could use the Vpot too on the Mackie, although I don't really like the notion of having to change fader banks for inputs above the 8th.  What I need is something relatively simple, but it wouldn't have enough MI biz usefulness for anyone to make and market.  I'd love to hear how it goes if you get some of the Mackie or etc surfaces working w/ yr MH.

Philip Perkins

[Alan]

I meant how much current draw at 7.5 VDC.  The fader packs are certainly more like the size I'd want--can they stand alone w/o the master module?  What I meant about the trims vs channel output faders in banks is that it seems like the MH trims are all software (unlike MOTU), so it would be cool to be able to do that on the faders instead of with a mouse, and then switch over to the channel faders for making a dailies mix.  I guess you could use the Vpot too on the Mackie, although I don't really like the notion of having to change fader banks for inputs above the 8th.  What I need is something relatively simple, but it wouldn't have enough MI biz usefulness for anyone to make and market.  I'd love to hear how it goes if you get some of the Mackie or etc surfaces working w/ yr MH.

Philip Perkins

Phil,

Yes, MHlab works solely with the Fader Pack too without the MCU, the VPOT controls the trim. I copy something off MHlab site and this is what the Mackie can control, other then that theres also key mapping. I don't really have the time to explore much in the showroom.

Alan

The new MIO Console Control Surface support allows control of virtually all aspects of MIO Console and the v.5 Mix engine including:

    * Mic Pre Input Gain

    * Channel Phase

    * Mix Fader Gain and Panning

    * Mute and Solo

    * Complete support for send busses

    * Channel Strip selection

    * Monitor Controller Source and Level selection

    * Transport Control for the Record Panel

MIO Console’s native Mackie Control support also manages channel data readouts including:

    * Channel Names

    * Current Pan or Gain levels

    * Channel metering

    * Virtual knob readouts

    * Transport state

    * Transport time readout

    * Selected Send bus number

    * Dynamic Channel Ordering

    * Support for Bank and Nudge across multiple control surface units

[bcopenhagen]

Alan-

Did you read this thread already?

http://www.jwsound.net/SMF/index.php?topic=2430.15

That's where Graham talks about his experience testing and implementing the BCF2000 for use with Boom Recorder.  He also worked closely with Gotham Sound.  He's the gent Philip is talking about.

Brian

[graham]

Hi Alan,

   My setup includes:

macbook

MH 2882

BCF2000

Fostex fr2

bus powered external hd

i've used this system for the past 4 months and have been very happy. Brian pointed the link which describes my first system using the ff400 and totalmix. its doable but a pain in the arse to set up and easy to make mistakes with. The MH MIO is awesome and works great with the Mackie protocol. I havent tried Eucon but i think you are right and MH has not ironed out the wrinkles

Gotham is in the process of trying to mod the bcf2000 to dc. its not so simple a thing to do. the motor faders take a different voltage than the midi commands. the best they've got it to date is that the faders work and some of the midi commands function, but most buttons become inoperative. When all faders move via motor, the unit pulls 1 amp for a few milliseconds, otherwise it was averaging .15 to .3( i think, we tested a while ago)

In addition to a control surface, i use a Shuttle Pro http://www.contourdesign.com/shuttlepro

You can program key commands to one touch buttons. I have numerous monitor configurations, banking, pan, gain, mute and dim programmed as well as the jog wheel for volume. The MIO can be controlled by the MCU expansion or any extender( mackie protocol) and when used in conjunction with the Shuttle, you wont miss a thing( there are key commands for transport as well you can program).

If you have the time and inclination, you can build a control surface to be however you want

http://ucapps.de/

Phil, the trims are controlled by mouse or Vpot. the faders will not control the trim. Using the faders creates no zipper noise. However, the preamps do have a noticeable clicking noise when altering gain( .5db increments i think). Thats not great, but i normally dont ride the gain mid scene. The only latency i noticed was this: when routing tone to a channel, fast fade up and down had noticeable warble. i never move faders that fast in a scene and voices not being constant, i never noticed this in the field nor have i ever heard anything from post.

For anyone interested in the checking out the MIO mixer, you can download and configure it without the hardware

http://www.mhlabs.com/metric_halo/download/mio_driver.shtml

There are many cool features about this software. You can create a mixer based on what you want. Just a few of the features i really like that i havent seen elswhere(not to say they dont exist...):

-Drag faders in any order ie dragging input 8 to position 2, fader 2 on control surface now controls input 8

-Saving mixer state. Any issues or questions, i can send my current state to other users or support and they can see exactly what i see.

-Custom color scheme

-Routing pre dsp and/ or post dsp

-Add or remove input strips on the fly

Below is one of the mixers i created. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me. I love talking about this stuff. In fact, my wife loves me talking about this stuff... to anyone other than her

[Jeff Wexler]

Hi Alan,

   My setup includes:

macbook

MH 2882

BCF2000

Fostex fr2

bus powered external hd

i've used this system for the past 4 months and have been very happy.

Hey, Graham, I have been reading this thread with great interest since I have been a big fan of Metric Halo for many, many years. I still have yet to implement a full computer based (laptop) approach to production recording for myself but the efforts and successes, and of course some pitfalls and failures, of others are very intriguing. After spending quite a lot of time at the Metric Halo site I am amazed at how much development and refinement there has been to the software that drives the beautiful hardware they have had for years. If I were to build up a system for myself I would put Metric Halo as the absolute first choice.

I am curious about the Record Panel mentioned (and pictured below) as part of the new software. Has this always been available and is it a viable recorder?

Regards,  Jeff Wexler

[Alan]

Hey, Graham, I have been reading this thread with great interest since I have been a big fan of Metric Halo for many, many years. I still have yet to implement a full computer based (laptop) approach to production recording for myself but the efforts and successes, and of course some pitfalls and failures, of others are very intriguing. After spending quite a lot of time at the Metric Halo site I am amazed at how much development and refinement there has been to the software that drives the beautiful hardware they have had for years. If I were to build up a system for myself I would put Metric Halo as the absolute first choice.

I am curious about the Record Panel mentioned (and pictured below) as part of the new software. Has this always been available and is it a viable recorder?

Regards,  Jeff Wexler

Jeff,

Thanks for joining in, I don't think the record panel is a viable recorder, although it was said to be TC capable, it is just a matter of choosing timeline frame rates that all. Not the way Metacorder or Boom Recorder handles TC. Lastly there are no extended Metadata support.

Graham,

Do you have any problem controlling both BR and MIO, will your assign rec key on the shuttle pro trigger both Rec Panel and BR to go into rec? I'm abit wary about these issue as they are both midi transport command trigger. You have BR running in the background or MIO running in the background?

Alan

[Alan]

Yeah, I was thinking of experimenting with a similar setup. I was wondering what this hooked up to a Metric Halo I/O and Mac Mini would be like:

True it isn't DC. Would be great if one of these could be bus powered.

Simon,

I will rather you use this, its DC ready, it has a slate mic, just use it as a HUI and let MHlab deal with the audio, if budget matters then use the Alesis for both audio and hui.

Alan

[Simon Paine]

Simon,

I will rather you use this, its DC ready, it has a slate mic, just use it as a HUI and let MHlab deal with the audio, if budget matters then use the Alesis for both audio and hui.

Alan

Looks like a nice unit.

OK, just dreaming out loud now, wouldn't it be great if you could control a MH MIO with  a SD CL-8 controler. That would be a great compact package.

[graham]

Hey Jeff,

   As Alan said, the record panel is not currently a viable solution for our workflow. I would add though, that i have been in contact with a lot of people who do use it(music recording and mastering). According to them, it is rock solid. I would also imagine that if you routed your mix from the record panel back into the the monitor, you would have less latency(probably near zero) as compared to monitoring from BR.

Graham,

Do you have any problem controlling both BR and MIO, will your assign rec key on the shuttle pro trigger both Rec Panel and BR to go into rec? I'm abit wary about these issue as they are both midi transport command trigger. You have BR running in the background or MIO running in the background?

I havent set up transport on the shuttle yet, although i will test it soon. In MIO you can modify key commands so they would not conflict with another programs. the way the shuttle works is that whatever app is on top takes over the shuttle. Therefore, if you do get one, delete all the preset programs and edit the key commands under the global settings to work with your MIO.

with regards to which app is in front... it depends. Lately i've had fun playing with Expose under system prefs on the mac. i normally run only BR and MIO and sometimes the itunes mini window. with expose, you see all open windows(picture below). clicking on one brings it to the front. Details become hard to read, but the reality is, i just look at the pretty lights and make sure they dont go to far in the red. if i need to edit data/ metadata then i go to each program accordingly. No conflict issues with which window is in front.

As for which control surface... frankly, i'm not thrilled with any of the designs and have been leaning more and more to building one( time consuming). I think the MCU takes up a lot of real estate and isnt DC. Alan, if you do get this working on DC, please let me know and i'll get over the real estate loss. Euphonix MC mix and artist series are thin, lighter, dc, but pretty darn wide and their faders are almost as loud as the BCF when the motors slap them full up and down. I might check out the MCU extender with the shuttle. The list goes on with size, functionality price, etc. Others to look at are Tascam, Alesis( as Alan pointed out), and then there are the more expensive ones JL Cooper and Jazzmutant among others. For now, the bcf2000 does what i need and its super cheap. Hopefully we'll nail the dc mod

Simon, you could actually build something as simple as the CL8 to control MIO. It could be as simple as 8 rotaries for trims and faders. www.ucapps.de

[Alan]

I think the MCU takes up a lot of real estate and isnt DC. Alan, if you do get this working on DC, please let me know and i'll get over the real estate loss.

Graham,

The Mackie MCU Pro is infact DC 7.5V, drawing 3.5 amp.

Alan

[graham]

i just checked the XT and it has the same draw. The LCD probably pulls the majority of power. The documentation doesnt have much at all regarding power. I spoke with Mackie tech and they said it was 7.5v AC and new mcu draws 3.3amps older 4amps. He didnt have spec on units being idle, but with the monster lcd i assume it would be around 2.5amps(bcf2000 drawing 1 amp when all motorized faders are active and no lcd)and if bypassing their power ie mod for dc, warranty is void

[Alan]

i just checked the XT and it has the same draw. The LCD probably pulls the majority of power. The documentation doesnt have much at all regarding power. I spoke with Mackie tech and they said it was 7.5v AC and new mcu draws 3.3amps older 4amps. He didnt have spec on units being idle, but with the monster lcd i assume it would be around 2.5amps(bcf2000 drawing 1 amp when all motorized faders are active and no lcd)and if bypassing their power ie mod for dc, warranty is void

Graham,

Thanks for the info I may have overlook the AC or DC 7.5V issue, btw I'm dealing with ASC in Canada to have a mod on my old Pro Tools 888/24 and 882/20 for DC operation and see whats the finding.

If all is good, ha, i can takes this I/O out for a ride as they can work as a stand alone AD/DA. With the Magma PCI expansion mobile box and PCMCIA connection, I can plug in a Digidesign Mixcore with 888/24 i/o and runs MC with an old G4 Powerbook, with Digidesign coreaudio. using my AD147 mixer.

Many ways to kill a bird. Oh.....I love recycling.

Alan

[graham]

an update was released for eucon. I have heard that the MC artist series will now play nice with the 2882. For those that don't know, it's a totally different protocol than mackie or midi and uses an Ethernet connection. Also DC powered. Euphonix.com