Jeff Wexler Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 I've just gotten the chance to do some serious listening tests with the new DPA - Slim. One word: glorious! We all know it is small (slim) and this will be real advantage in most cases over the standard sized DPA I am used to. Over the years we've had no real problems mounting the DPA 4063 but there have been some situations where a smaller profile mic would have been great. I tried it with and without the accessory fitting (I don't know what is called, the tube, the snoot, the cap?) and there seems to be very little difference in sound quality. The tube does seem to affect, slightly, the overall pickup pattern: the mic definitely sounded best when speaking more directly towards the tube rather than the back of the mic. The tube is a wonderful idea, allowing the mic to be firmly planted under clothing but still "exposed" and open — poking through the bottom of a button hole even with the button in place seems to work really well. A suggestion would be to have the tube/cap available in different colors, at least maybe a white one or some lighter color. On a light colored shirt the black tube is almost invisible — if it were white it would be totally invisible in even the closest shot. I have had so little experience with the Concealers I cannot really comment from personal experience (since I'm not the one who usually wires the people I'll have to wait to hear from my crew). Now, my biggest concern with this mic was the potential problem of increased noise floor and decreased headroom since I am using the mic with my Zaxcom transmitters. All my other DPAs are 4063s, low voltage (3 volts) and are dead quiet — going into a Zaxcom transmitter with essentially no self-noise, the 4063 sounds exactly like it does when plugged directly hard wired into the my Cooper. I did the same tests with the Slim, again using the only test instruments I can trust (my ears), and I noticed a tiny increase in the noise floor but deemed to be quite acceptable in almost all voices and environments. Listening to the Slim plugged directly hardwired into the Cooper, it was ever so slightly quieter noise floor. As for dynamic range, I never managed to get it to really crap out with loud sounds and it seemed that even if it has reduced dynamic range I wasn't able to effectively demonstrate that. It seems that the output (sensitivity) may be higher than my 4063s, I did have adjust input trim down slightly to produce the same consistent levels I was used to. The cable is a huge improvement — almost immune to any handling noise or microphonics. I would still like to see DPA develop a true low voltage model of the Slim just to insure that it would perform exactly like the 4063. Even as is, I would not hesitate to use it just as I have so successfully used the 4063 with my Zaxcom transmitters — that combination, DPA and Zaxcom, has consistently produced the best sounding wireless audio ever! Note: we all owe a huge debt of gratitude to Rado for suggesting to DPA the idea of the Slim. Thank you, and thanks to DPA for following through and making this a reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 Thanks JW. I'm moving over to DPA mics and the next two will be the slims. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramallo Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 I will wait for a low voltage version Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Johnson Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 3 hours ago, Jeff Wexler said: I would still like to see DPA develop a true low voltage model of the Slim just to insure that it would perform exactly like the 4063. Even as is, I would not hesitate to use it just as I have so successfully used the 4063 with my Zaxcom transmitters — that combination, DPA and Zaxcom, has consistently produced the best sounding wireless audio ever! Totally agree Jeff the Zax and DPA is a marriage made in heaven. How do you think this slight increase in noise would affect whispered dial? I am planning to get some of these soon for an upcoming movie and i doubt DPA will produce a low V version by then. Regards Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted January 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 18 minutes ago, Tony Johnson said: Totally agree Jeff the Zax and DPA is a marriage made in heaven. How do you think this slight increase in noise would affect whispered dial? A lot of the testing I was doing was with my own voice (not the best procedure) but in my shop which is pretty quiet. I did do some very low level stuff which I then played back (easier to make judgements on playback). My general feeling is that I would be more comfortable with the 4063 if I knew I was going to be doing really, really low level stuff in super quiet environment, but I also feel confident that I would easily get away with a very good recording if I used the Slim. It's a tough call, sorry I cannot give you a more definitive answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Johnson Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 Thanks Jeff thats all very helpful. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VASI Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 Hi Jeff, When you say "accessory fitting", you mean that little black accessory? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted January 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 Yes, exactly. I guess I should look at the DPA website to see what DPA calls it --- the little cap-thing that provides a tube to direct the sound into the capsule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 It's officially called "The Button Hole Mount" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted January 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 Thanks, Eric. Maybe people will call it the BHM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Tarrant Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 Great review of the " slim"thanks Jeff. I have not had the chance to hear one as there is no rental house near me where I can try one and as far as I know none of the local mixers in my area have any slims or any other DPA's for that matter. I have the usual assortment...Cos 11's B6 and Countryman EMW but think it's time for some DPA's. The biggest thing holding me back was the size of the other types of DPA lavs but now with the slim, I have no excuse...other than the Canadian Dollar exchange rate...ouch! Experienced ears like yours tell me what I need to know and that is the value of JW Sound. Think I'll just bite the bullet and get a couple of Slims. Is there any talk of making assorted colors for the button hole mount...as that is the only issue I can see with this rig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvanstry Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 Very curious about DPA lavs. I have used them in musical instrument when I was working live sound mixing and was very impressed. I have a couples of questions if anyone has a minute to spare ( Jeff? ): 1- how do they compare to Sanken cos-11d sonically was? 2- are the cable/capsule more microphonic ( sensible to rubbing ) then Sanken? 3- can someone demonstrate ( video or photos ) how the button mount works on a shirt? Does it eliminate rubbing? 4- 4071 or 4060? I am a Lectrosonics users if it matters. Thank you P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 While I haven't used the Slim yet, I can comment on the 4060/4061/4063 series. Comparison is as follows: A COS-11 is similar to an MKH416 as a DPA 40xx is similar to a Schoeps 641. The COS11 & 416 have a bit of a presence bite that helps them cut through in certain circumstances while the 40xx & 641 are more natural sounding. All the above have valid places in our toolbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VASI Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 In my experience between 4071 and 4061: 4071: Under clothes, closer to neck/chest area. 4071 wins the 4061. Cuts all that garbage from neck/chest area and leaves place for wonderful sounding from a voice. 4061: The magic happens in lower position. It opens the diagram, don't be afraid of that. After trying the 4071, I am huge fan of this. I will place it in actor or non professional actor; when I will first hear his/her voice. The Slim version is only for 4060, 4061 line. I hope they come for 4063 and 4062 versions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Trew Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 4 hours ago, Jeff Wexler said: Thanks, Eric. Maybe people will call it the BHM. I bet people will call it the snoot. I think DPA is also adapting this name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ze Frias Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 23 hours ago, Jeff Wexler said: I would still like to see DPA develop a true low voltage model of the Slim just to insure that it would perform exactly like the 4063. Even as is, I would not hesitate to use it just as I have so successfully used the 4063 with my Zaxcom transmitters — that combination, DPA and Zaxcom, has consistently produced the best sounding wireless audio ever! During the pre-announcement stages of the Slim, a DPA insider mentioned to me that there were plans to develop a low voltage version of the Slim. As to when it will happen remains to be determined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Sjostrom Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 While I haven't used the Slim yet, I can comment on the 4060/4061/4063 series. Comparison is as follows: A COS-11 is similar to an MKH416 as a DPA 40xx is similar to a Schoeps 641. The COS11 & 416 have a bit of a presence bite that helps them cut through in certain circumstances while the 40xx & 641 are more natural sounding. All the above have valid places in our toolbox. Great comparison. I +300 this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 While I haven't used the Slim yet, I can comment on the 4060/4061/4063 series. Comparison is as follows: A COS-11 is similar to an MKH416 as a DPA 40xx is similar to a Schoeps 641. The COS11 & 416 have a bit of a presence bite that helps them cut through in certain circumstances while the 40xx & 641 are more natural sounding. All the above have valid places in our toolbox. Yes, I whole-heartedly agree, too. I'd like to point out, though (also a response to VAS), that the 406x mics come with different grids that will change the frequency response somewhat thereby adding some of the presence. This also makes me wonder about the purpose of the 4071 which is bigger and more expensive than the 406x, but not really that much more useful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 At least on paper, there's quite a difference between the a 406x with a boost cap and a 4071. Comparing the published curves, the 406x cap boosts the upper highs with a peak around 12kHz, and the 4071 has a presence peak at about 4.8kHz, as well as a gentle rolloff below speech frequencies. So, in regard to presence, the 4071 adds about 4.5dB at 5kHz vs only about 1.5dB at 5kHz for the 4061. The way I see it, the 406x cap is more about compensating for clothing and the 4071 is more about adding presence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 ^ Yes, I know, but in practice I find the various grids perfectly sufficient, and I'll choose them depending on the mounting position or sometimes to suit a voice. I frequently use the flat grid, and it'd be terrible if I had a fixed boost built in that I couldn't get rid off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 My biggest issue with the Sanken COS 11's is they seldom match each other. I have 6/7 and they are all a bit different sounding to my ears. Of course so are the voices I use them on. T he DPA's seem to be closely matched... Can't have too many lavs in the mic drawer. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VASI Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Constantin, The grids, works with concealer? Jeff, With the "tube", "snoot", adds more presence or affect the whole pattern? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Constantin, The grids, works with concealer? Yes they do. the overall size of the mic remains largely the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobo Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 Jeff, were these Lo-Sens or Hi-Sens version of the Slim in your test? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 About the self noise and the Slim. While I have not done scientific test I do not notice the self noise in normal environments. In very quiet studio setting I hear the self noise of the zax TRX and not the mic even with 4063. "I have all dynamics minimized in the transmitter" Jeff you can test the self noise without having the lav pluged in the trx or even compare between slim and 4063 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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