Jump to content

PRODUCTION AND POST


soundwiz

Recommended Posts

hi,

  i am mostly into doing production sound for Docs and Televison and gradually moving into doing production sound for films

  would like to know from all whether it is very distinct, as in some people do only production sound or post or both,

  are you expected to do both(production and post) or may do only production and not do post

  i was told by some friends(who work in both) that the post crew are not very accomodative of  production sound guys and try to run them down,

  hope they are wrong

  how does the production sound guys tackle these issues (with the directors and post people etc),or any similar people in the post chain

   what are the advantages and disadvantages of doing both(work, money wise)

  thanks for all your honest opinions

  Harry

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It all depends on scope of the project, budgets and so forth. On several small productions, some with little or no budget, the desire is to find one person who will be able to do everything required regarding sound on the project. This would mean, of course, that this person would need to be proficient and well versed in ALL aspects of production sound recording, post-production sound editorial and mixing to complete print master.

It is the rare individual who could be actually fully qualified to perform all of these jobs, but when there is no budget it is not possible to hire the proper and necessary people.

In most of our careers whether we have settle into primarily production or postv work, we have had experience in both worlds. It is true that production and post are kept quite apart and distinct and traditionally not for any particularly good reason. Some of this division occurs because of the nature of the work: someone working in production (during shooting) will obviously not be available to start the post editorial process, other people will be needed for that (unless the production will wait, out of necessity, to start the post process).

Once you have been identified as working primarily in a production capacity, even at the level of scheduling and availability, it is unlikely that you would be able to do post production work.

The relative merits of either job can be quite simply spelled out: if you like to work horrendously long hours in often dangerous and uncomfortable working conditions, you should do production. If you prefer working horrendously long hours in fairly decent working conditions, you should choose post. The pay is good in both jobs but has the potential to be quite a bit better in the post arena than in production, and the prestige and respect offered to most in post is far greater than it is in production.

-  JW

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It all depends on scope of the project, budgets and so forth. On several small productions, some with little or no budget, the desire is to find one person who will be able to do everything required regarding sound on the project. This would mean, of course, that this person would need to be proficient and well versed in ALL aspects of production sound recording, post-production sound editorial and mixing to complete print master.

It is the rare individual who could be actually fully qualified to perform all of these jobs, but when there is no budget it is not possible to hire the proper and necessary people.

In most of our careers whether we have settle into primarily production or postv work, we have had experience in both worlds. It is true that production and post are kept quite apart and distinct and traditionally not for any particularly good reason. Some of this division occurs because of the nature of the work: someone working in production (during shooting) will obviously not be available to start the post editorial process, other people will be needed for that (unless the production will wait, out of necessity, to start the post process).

Once you have been identified as working primarily in a production capacity, even at the level of scheduling and availability, it is unlikely that you would be able to do post production work.

The relative merits of either job can be quite simply spelled out: if you like to work horrendously long hours in often dangerous and uncomfortable working conditions, you should do production. If you prefer working horrendously long hours in fairly decent working conditions, you should choose post. The pay is good in both jobs but has the potential to be quite a bit better in the post arena than in production, and the prestige and respect offered to most in post is far greater than it is in production.

-  JW

A couple of thoughts.  I have striven my whole career to be in both the production and post world, with some success, so it is possible.  There are very large benefits to this in terms of understanding the whole audio process, and also for an individual not having all his eggs in the same basket financially.  While the American feature world is not well set up for the same people to work on production and post, it does happen (Randy Thom used to do production sound as well as post : "Never Cry Wolf" among those films.  Ann Kroeber recorded "Blue Velvet" and then co-sound-designed the film.)  In Europe, this approach is much more common, and I often see films in which the same people work on both sides.    Scheduling-wise one has to take one's lumps and decide what one wants to do as the offers come in, but I find that many of my clients appreciate my 2-sided expertise and that has helped me get some very cool jobs. You are correct that the hours are long on both sides, but after 30 years of this I would have to say that the hours, at least for me, are much longer in post.  And while it is true that in post we work indoors, there have been MANY days in which I would have cheerfully traded my chair in front of the DAW for standing behind my cart in the pouring rain etc, usually because a phalanx of above-the-line folks are sitting on my head and shoulders and there is NO ONE else present to buffer me from them.    After weeks of this kind of exposure even big-bag run and gun feels like a vacation, believe me.    And where did you get the idea that there was MORE money in post?  I wish!

Philip Perkins CAS

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jeff said: The pay is good in both jobs but has the potential to be quite a bit better in the post arena than in production-  JW

Phillip said: And where did you get the idea that there was MORE money in post?  I wish!

Philip Perkins CAS

The key word in what I was trying to say above is "potential" for better pay in post production. In regards to Production, their is an absolute ceiling for the most part on how much money can be made and it is inextricably tied to the number of HOURS of your time you are willing to work and the producer is willing to pay. In Post Production, certainly at the higher level positions (and obviously much less so at the lower level assistant positions) there is greater potential for greater pay, based not so much on the hours you are willing to work. Top re-recording mixers are stars in their field and like top picture editors can often command much higher pay. It is no accident that both the picture editors and the re-recording (sound) people are all now in a GUILD with the post production sound people no longer in the "production" sound Local. There are many other factors I have discussed before that relate to the nature of movie-making and how the production sound mixer is viewed vs. the post production sound mixer. In the final days of completing a movie, the SOUNDTRACK is the last area where a producer and director feel they can "save" their movie. Composers fall under this spell, this mystique as well, and we all know what composers can make money-wise.

-  JW

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In what we used to call "ReRe" it's never too hot or cold and you don't have rain running down your neck.  No one screams indeed, the attitude is thoughtful, considerate even subtle.  Most of all, everyone in the dubbing theater is there for only sound-not picture! 

On the set a production mixer is mostly looked on as a nuisence or, at the best, a service department (walkies, playback, Comtecks).  Remember the production manager, who wanted the cheapest, quitest and fastest mixer?  He's nowhere to be found when the production mixer's work is evaluated in Post.  The most popular ReRe mixers are paid very well best because their reputation brings in the business for the entire dubbing stage.  They work on the big shows one after the other and are able to establish lasting relationships with many above the line people. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In what we used to call "ReRe" it's never too hot or cold and you don't have rain running down your neck.  No one screams indeed, the attitude is thoughtful, considerate even subtle.  Most of all, everyone in the dubbing theater is there for only sound-not picture! 

On the set a production mixer is mostly looked on as a nuisence or, at the best, a service department (walkies, playback, Comtecks).  Remember the production manager, who wanted the cheapest, quitest and fastest mixer?  He's nowhere to be found when the production mixer's work is evaluated in Post.  The most popular ReRe mixers are paid very well best because their reputation brings in the business for the entire dubbing stage.  They work on the big shows one after the other and are able to establish lasting relationships with many above the line people. 

If you haven't heard screaming on a dub stage then you haven't spent that much time there.  The big-time Mike Minkler type mixers are paid a lot because they are under ENORMOUS pressure from powerful producers and studio people to save a movie in an ever decreasing amount of time.  They are the audio equivalent of DPs.  Production mixers don't have that level of respect, perhaps unfairly, because it is thought the the audio post people have our backs.  (Or the director's back.)  I love rerecording mixing, but am always very relieved to return to production sound and get outside again.  About the money, I'm sorry but you are just plain wrong about the pay levels for all but the highest end big-movie mixers.  On most shows a rerecording mixer will walk away with less money per hour than a production sound mixer, and often doesn't have any equipment involved at all.  In docs, the disparity is even greater, even factoring in that I DO own the audio post gear.  I'm not complaining, since I work on both sides about equally, but mid-budg doc production sound people normally get more for their labor and package than I get for me and my whole room--I know, since I'm often BOTH people.

Philip Perkins

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Phillip said: About the money, I'm sorry but you are just plain wrong about the pay levels for all but the highest end big-movie mixers.  On most shows a rerecording mixer will walk away with less money per hour than a production sound mixer

I respect what you say Philip and I am sure you are right --- we do agree on the whole "save the movie" thing with the soundtrack and I may have been too swayed by the "high end big movie mixers" who do make it quite clear how much they are making each year. I guess the other thing I may have been factoring in, and this is probably not the proper thing to do, is that the big post mixers who work in the big name facilties get to do a lot of work on a lot of movies, way more than most freelance production people can accomplish.

-  JW

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A couple of thoughts.   I have striven my whole career to be in both the production and post world, with some success, so it is possible.  There are very large benefits to this in terms of understanding the whole audio process, and also for an individual not having all his eggs in the same basket financially.   While the American feature world is not well set up for the same people to work on production and post, it does happen (Randy Thom used to do production sound as well as post : "Never Cry Wolf" among those films.   Ann Kroeber recorded "Blue Velvet" and then co-sound-designed the film.)   In Europe, this approach is much more common, and I often see films in which the same people work on both sides.    Scheduling-wise one has to take one's lumps and decide what one wants to do as the offers come in, but I find that many of my clients appreciate my 2-sided expertise and that has helped me get some very cool jobs. You are correct that the hours are long on both sides, but after 30 years of this I would have to say that the hours, at least for me, are much longer in post.  And while it is true that in post we work indoors, there have been MANY days in which I would have cheerfully traded my chair in front of the DAW for standing behind my cart in the pouring rain etc, usually because a phalanx of above-the-line folks are sitting on my head and shoulders and there is NO ONE else present to buffer me from them.    After weeks of this kind of exposure even big-bag run and gun feels like a vacation, believe me.    And where did you get the idea that there was MORE money in post?  I wish!

Philip Perkins CAS

Philip,  It's good to know that there are people out there who have let a successful career doing both.  as one who has been doing the same for about 4 years, I have wondered if it's possible to keep it up in the long run. 

-Greg-

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Philip,  It's good to know that there are people out there who have let a successful career doing both.  as one who has been doing the same for about 4 years, I have wondered if it's possible to keep it up in the long run. 

-Greg-

The pressures on an aging mid-market location sound person are mostly physical as well as how well you interact with employers and crew people who are younger than you are.  In post the main challenge is to not being driven into crazy bitterness and keeping up with all the new techno stuff.  If you have your own room then there are all the usual real-estate and neighbor problems that all recording businesses have as well.

Philip Perkins

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...