VASI Posted March 27, 2016 Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 Spoiler Alert Dear Rue, I will give you time to study, but for your sake; don't make me bring my axe. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h50mr1EBR50 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Deakin Posted March 27, 2016 Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 Be nice. Be nice everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bralleput Posted March 27, 2016 Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 After 15 years of trusted service my Ambient TC slate died after a shoot in the rain...I never got a new one.Dumb slates will do.( no complaints from post) And get Tentacle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al mcguire Posted March 27, 2016 Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 I try not to forget every hand that was extended to me on my audio journey, I will do my best to pass that spirit on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RueDwyer Posted March 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 Well, I'm well-versed on TC... I just didn't understand why anyone would have a lock-it box AND use a smart slate on a single camera shoot... anyone care to explain THAT? I figured production knew what they were doing... gave them the benefit of the doubt. Chalked up my confusion to ignorance... because I'm old enough to know when I don't know everything... to ASK. So... Let's hear it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abe Dolinger Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 (edited) Edited for not being nice. I don't like to be that guy. Edited March 28, 2016 by Abe Dolinger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 6 hours ago, RueDwyer said: Well, I'm well-versed on TC... I just didn't understand why anyone would have a lock-it box AND use a smart slate on a single camera shoot... anyone care to explain THAT? I've done that when I don't trust the camera to jam precisely all day long, and I don't want it to drift even a single frame. Call it the "belt and suspenders" approach. If the sound recorder is the master TC for the entire project, and the lockit box is jammed to that, and the camera is jammed to the lockit box, and the slate is jammed to the recorder, nothing is going to drift -- generally -- for at least 6 hours. If the lockit box and slate are precisely aligned, they won't drift for 10 hours in my experience. It only takes one camera operator rebooting the camera to reset the timecode and lose the jam. I can recall times when every battery change and every other mag change would do this. If you've ever had to sync up picture and track in post, you'd be grateful for everything working absolutely perfectly all day long. And with multiple cameras, you need multiple lockit boxes and Genlock Reference, because otherwise timecode phase will drift a fraction of a frame, which can cause two cameras to be very slightly out of sync with each other. This can be disastrous in 3D situations, causing a shutter issue. With multiple cameras for a live concert or something like that, this technique works very well. If you can really trust the crew and the camera is 100% reliable, you can jam it a couple of times a day or after any extended break or setup change, and it'll generally work fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McL Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 7 hours ago, RueDwyer said: Well, I'm well-versed on TC... I just didn't understand why anyone would have a lock-it box AND use a smart slate on a single camera shoot... anyone care to explain THAT? I figured production knew what they were doing... gave them the benefit of the doubt. Chalked up my confusion to ignorance... because I'm old enough to know when I don't know everything... to ASK. So... Let's hear it. When there's a problem, having the smart slate along with all the other elements will help troubleshoot where the problem lives. Experience shows that when there's a TC issue post's first finger inevitably points to sound and it will fall to you to troubleshoot...er...save your butt/reputation. A number of high-budget, A-list crewed productions have eliminated the smart slate in their workflow, but that means the production has the juice to get the best (newest) gear from the rental house, technicians who know how to do a checkout, and the bucks to do a sync test including sound. Given the choice, I will always go with belt/suspenders/rope and tape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ze Frias Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 Marc pretty much nailed it. We're in the business of redundancies. If one mechanism fails, it behooves us to have a second and third one in place to make sure everything will work out. Sync boxes are great, but if any of the camera settings change, the camera can easily stop taking TC. Having a smart slate that displays timecode as well as provides the tried and true sticks, will give you two forms of redundancies in case anything happens, and trust me, Murphy's law can especially apply to production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Deakin Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 Plus they look cool to with the numbers running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Thomas Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 6 hours ago, Glen Deakin said: Plus they look cool to with the numbers running. I think most times I've rented them have been purely for that reason and production want it for the BTS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Anderson Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 Back when I worked on Alexa camera jobs, we only used smart slates. But we would jam the camera. Sometimes we'd have to re-jam the camera after frame rate changes. But no sync boxes. Now it seems like I only work on Red camera shows and because of that camera's reputation, we put a sync box on it as well. At this point, post wants the sync box and even if Red improves the consistency of their time code generator, will anyone believe them? So I think we'll always be in a world where we use a sync box with cameras from that company. Just because the camera is getting time code doesn't mean the slate isn't important. It has all of the shot info like scene and take and that's what my notes and the script notes reference. In addition, when we shoot in slo-mo and cover dialogue, I try to get a heads and tails clap in case it helps do a speed ramp if they go that route later. I know some shows like House of Cards don't use slates. They just jam the cameras and the AC's input metadata onto the Red cameras (maybe via iPads?). The mixer on that show, Lorenzo visits this forum - he might be able to chime in. I assume it takes more overall time to wait for the AC's to put that data in (and AC's are a little notorious for having incorrect camera reports - sorry. At least with the visual slate, the script supervisor and the mixer know when the camera has been mis-slated). Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 11 hours ago, Richard Thomas said: I think most times I've rented them have been purely for that reason and production want it for the BTS I have encountered studio execs who have told me they look at the slate just to get an idea of what time of day the scene was being shot. And that's something I had never thought about before, until they mentioned it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Anderson Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 9 hours ago, Marc Wielage said: I have encountered studio execs who have told me they look at the slate just to get an idea of what time of day the scene was being shot. And that's something I had never thought about before, until they mentioned it. I was chided the other week when I forgot to change my master tc clock after daylight savings. I hope people remember that the slate time is probably approximate. I don't want to be responsible for the cost of meal penalties because of my time code. I know some mixers do purposefully start the day's time code at zero or 1 hour just so they don't have people expecting the clock to be absolutely time of day accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 Lockit+TC slate is SOP around here generally. Why? Because on many small short jobs we on the set cannot be sure what the editor's favored syncing method might be, and it isn't very much trouble to cover all the bases. The cameras in common use (esp RED) do not hold accurate jams for any usable period of time, the TC slate gives us an instant indication of if everyone is still in TC sync and the clap is still a great instant indicator of a specific point in time recorded on camera and recorder. Part of SOP is also usually (gasp!) putting some kind of ref-track on the camera (usually via wireless), so they CAN check playback with sound off camera on-set if they want to and a guide track for post is provided. On episodics etc with well worked out workflows one can work any way that's been agreed to. On less glamorous jobs covering all the bases is usually expected and appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Thomas Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 12 hours ago, Marc Wielage said: I have encountered studio execs who have told me they look at the slate just to get an idea of what time of day the scene was being shot. And that's something I had never thought about before, until they mentioned it. Actually when assisting I've been asked to keep the TOD timecode pretty accurate- in case we have any queries on overtime, it's stamped on the rushes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 9 hours ago, Richard Thomas said: Actually when assisting I've been asked to keep the TOD timecode pretty accurate- in case we have any queries on overtime, it's stamped on the rushes I have actually referred to timecode on the previous day's tracks when making up invoices that involve overtime. That's a pretty sure indicator for indie sets where there's no shop steward or anybody keeping track of billable hours for the entire crew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewest Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Gee are they Canadian? Have they asked if you have a Nagra? Is this a 16mm film shoot with a sync cable attached to camera? My nerves!!!!!!!! mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Deakin Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Canadian??? Whaaaaa? I'm offended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McL Posted May 21, 2016 Report Share Posted May 21, 2016 On 3/26/2016 at 4:48 PM, Jan McL said: You've never said anything stupid in public and been swarmed by the more-experienced? C'mon...I call B.S. Got my ass bit over the winter during a Holy-Shit car rig. I had to tape a thing with 2" paper in a hurry during a swift re-set. Pulled the 6" strip off and placed it, during which time the rigging gaffer asks me for some of that tape upon which I'd not left a tab. We locked eyes as his hand met the roll I held out, realizing at the same moment I'd fucked up. The depreciating grins. Like Bart Simpson in English class I think over and over: I will never fail to tab the tape roll... I will never fail to tab the tape roll... I will never fail to tab the tape roll... I will never fail to tab the tape roll... I will never fail to tab the tape roll... I will never fail to tab the tape roll... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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