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130V : Microphones


VASI
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Is the next step of microphone design; the 130V?
Is something to consider from ours side?
Should the microphone manufacturers to look further?

I am open this conversation to see if we will get a benefit from 130V microphones; practical and theoretical. As far I know, only the DPA Microphones has 130V microphone versions. If the 130V mics become a norm in near (or far) future; what that means for location recorders?

Opinions from manufacturers are welcome!

Best
V

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I'm no expert in the subject, but my understanding is that the 130v mics don't use a transformer, making for a "cleaner" sound. The trade off is that the signal is unbalanced (at least on the DPA 130V mics I've seen), which would make it more susceptible to RFI and EMI. Probably great for controlled studio environments doing short cable runs. Perhaps not ideal for location use IMO, considering all the RF we deal with today, even just from cellphones.

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Hi Jose and Mike,

So, we have a problem with these microphones, being prone to EMI / RFI issues. We won something else; which I can't see now? I mean: Better S/N? Better self noise performance? More transparent sound?

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17 hours ago, VAS said:

Hi Jose and Mike,

So, we have a problem with these microphones, being prone to EMI / RFI issues. We won something else; which I can't see now? I mean: Better S/N? Better self noise performance? More transparent sound?

Again, I'm no expert, but I think that's what it essentially gets down to. A transformer less design would translate to lower self noise, which in turn provides better SNR, and qualitatively a "cleaner" sound (which is a lot to say considering how clean the non-130V DPA mics already sound).

The unbalanced signal is particularly the issue in our field IMO, for the reasons already mentioned. It also uses a different XLR connector if I remember correctly, the 4-pin XLR, which means that manufacturers would have to add an extra set of connectors or replace some of the current XLR3 connectors on their recorders to be able to support this particular design.

I just don't see how the benefits can outweigh the drawbacks for our particular kind of work.

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Plus, they need 130V, so either completely newly designed recorders, or rather input sections, are needed or extra power supplies will need to be used. In both cases current draw will be much higher, which in turn creates further problems. The DPA 4017, for example, already has a dynamic range of 124dB. There are only few a/d converters which would even come close. Sure, the lower noise floor...

I don't see any benefits to this

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Made a recording using a DPA (can't remember the model) going to a Millenia HV-3D for a classical recording in a Manhattan hall. We ran bunch of tests during the setup day and I remember due to RF we had to pay extra attention to keep the cable runs shorter and make perfect 90 degree crossings on electric/signal paths for that mic a little more. 

This was in 2009 so I don't know if since then DPA(or other 130Volt mic manufacturers) made improvements on their electronics regarding RF.

Engin

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4 hours ago, al mcguire said:

A solution in search of problem ?

 

Interesting solution, but no DC = no bueno.
http://www.rensheijnis.com/DPA.htm

Maybe, if I can read correctly; is something here:
http://www.dpamicrophones.com/mic-university/impedance-balancing-with-active-drive

But need a further investigation.

"Max distance, 20m, between mic and power supply. From power supply to mic input, 300m."

We won sensitivity and lower self noise, but we lose the others. Compromises.
It is what it is for now; that's for sure.

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Constantin, I am not pushing anything. I didn't know it was unbalanced, so I learned something here.
Maybe I am pushing for a "JWSoundLab". :-P

130V microphones exist and I know little about it. So, why not to ask and learn something.

:)

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