Jump to content

360° video and double MS


Ben B

Recommended Posts

Hi all,

Next week i will be shooting 3 360° videos. It will be 3 plan sequence going through a shop, a restaurant kitchen and the rest of the restaurant. There won't be any dialogue but a lot of people doing a choreography of stuff around the camera rig as the rig move along (juggling with product, fake singing with a mop and so on). Since the camera rig will film in every direction there is no way i can record audio at the same time. The plan is as soon as they have the take they want, i will do one more take for audio and i'll move around at about the same speed as the cam rig recording what's happening, some wild track of particular actions, atmo, etc... (so i'll give the sound designer as many possibilities as possible).

I thought about doing a double MS setup so i can record everything that is happening around me as i move along. I own 2 Neumann KM184 and a Neumann KK120 with a KM A module. So one Km184 facing forward, above the KK120/KM A and on top the second KM 184 facing backwards.

What do you guys think? Have anyone tried something like this? Or have a better solution?

Thanks!

Ben

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If at all possible check with post to make sure they're on board with the MS configurations.  I did some recording for 360° virtual reality recently. Without any info on how they were handling post I just recorded an XY pair and sometimes a binaural rig in addition. One of the great benefits of modern multitrack recording is the ability to offer alternatives.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would put personals on the juggler and mop people (and anyone else in the shot) and record their audio while the camera is shooting.  I'd also secrete microphones into the environment to record spot fx of anything the viewer might find interesting.  Record as much as you can while the camera is rolling.  That way, if the software is clever enough, it can pan the audio as the viewer changes the direction he's looking at.  Then I'd go into each room and record atmos.  I'm not sure if using MS is a good idea since ideally, the stereo image would move with the viewer, not the sound recordist or the camera, so perhaps a couple of spaced microphones pointed at nothing in particular might be better.

I think you should chat with whoever is responsible for putting this footage "out there", to see exactly what is possible with the audio once it's in the public domain.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Lancashire soundie: There will be as much as 40 people moving around and doing stuff during the shot. I can't mic them all up and it would be technically way too much for a video like this. They're gonna do everything with foley. My job on this one is to provide as many possibilities and choice to the sound designer. 

I'm pretty sure the audio won't pan with the viewer looking around or moving with the mouse. I'm gonna check with post to make sure. I'm gonna re record as much as possible to give the sound designer more possibilities and of course as many atmos i can.

@Constantin: Sorry i described my rig not very accurately. The 3 capsules are gonna be aligned to produce the double MS.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A rigged Ambisonic mic like the SPS200 or the Tetramic would work extremely well since in post you can easily create a 3D experience for VR with it (there are quite a few tools that support the transcoding of B-format Ambisonic into a binaural experience that uses the head-motion tracking of the VR headset to deliver the most realistic experience), but the 360 rig operator who is walking the rig would need to be okay with a small 4-channel recorder on him/her to make it work. I've done it quite a few times. The operator wearing silent shoes or being careful about their step would be a good thing too, though if there are several people doing multiple things at the same time, it may not be essential.

As I see it though, realistically speaking, most of this will have to be foley'ed. Having a rich sound scape of individual foley cues will give post the most freedom to create the necessary HRTF, while being able to focus on the story telling of the project's sound. Post can deliver a full 360 experience for sound, and there are a few authoring tools that will spit out a few different files to accommodate everything from a custom app for Oculus Rift to a simple YouTube 360 video to be used along with Google Cardboard. Samsung Gear VR will support a 5.1 surround sound file for example, which it would then encode into a 4-point surround mix with it's dedicated authoring tool. A Youtube 360 video would only support a stereo file (for now).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sounds like the stereo recordings you'll be capturing will mostly just be the hustle and bustle of a bunch of choreographed action... may not be much of a compelling ambiance. In addition to your stereo recordings, I would suggest getting as many of the individual actions recorded in MONO to be implemented into a 360 soundscape by post. Whether it's just an ambiance track for a YouTube 360 video or implementing the sounds into an engine (Unity or Unreal etc)  and allowing the HRTF to create the 360 soundscape...MONO recordings are key for any HRTF based sound engine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, THSnodgrass said:

Sounds like the stereo recordings you'll be capturing will mostly just be the hustle and bustle of a bunch of choreographed action... may not be much of a compelling ambiance. In addition to your stereo recordings, I would suggest getting as many of the individual actions recorded in MONO to be implemented into a 360 soundscape by post. Whether it's just an ambiance track for a YouTube 360 video or implementing the sounds into an engine (Unity or Unreal etc)  and allowing the HRTF to create the 360 soundscape...MONO recordings are key for any HRTF based sound engine.

I think this is a very sensible and smart approach.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I ran a DMS schoeps rig for a 360 video in an anechoic chamber recently.  It worked great for what we needed.  The main thing you would get from ambisonics over DMS is vertical placement information.  That was not needed for my situation, so a DMS rig worked perfectly.

One thing I find important in VR is maintaining perspective.    I imagine recording your video like recording an orchestra.  A main mic with the cameras perspective of the room capturing positional information, and spot mics (mono SFX tracks) for the individual sounds to be placed around the room in post .  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks everybody for your precious tips. 

I won't be able to record during the take because the 360 degrees cams will film in every direction (that means up and down to) and it will be carried and moved around by a remote controlled car. So no way for me to place my recorder on it. And even if i could place a mic on it i'll ear the remote controlled car noise driving around.

i talked with the production and post today and, since it will only be a foley job, they will need a many mono SFX tracks as possible and atmos to create the sound story telling. And i learnt today that there will be an music bed along the whole video. 

Unfortunately budget is a problem on this project so i will have to work with what i have. After the call this morning i think the double MS on this project will be more of a test for me than really usefull for the video. If it turns out great than i'll be very happy and post too, but i think the mono SFX's and atmos will be the most usefull.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So this was the set up we used: 2 go pros with a 180° lens on some sort of segway. The final film is a 360° film in every direction with a logo on the very bottom/ground put in post to hide this segway thing.

I ended up recording every action that was happening in the picture as mono sfx as well as atmos in MS of every room we were in. The film will have a music bed and the sfx i recorded will be there to emphasis the important action happening along this plan séquence.

Thanks everybody for your precious tips and advices.

Ben

IMG_0714.JPG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you can get an SPS-200 rig it above where the camera is nominally working.

I post you can move the microphone around to fit the visuals.

I have one that I use for orchestral recordings and the experience of moving around

in post is the weirdest experience going!

 

SPS-200.JPG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...