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Panavision DXL 8K Camera Unveiled at ASC Clubhouse


al mcguire

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No beginner will use and afford the Panavision DXL camera and lenses. The one who does afford will also afford any post production.

It's not about the money. It's about wasting time and trying to hide bad preparation, by covering every shot from many angles "just in case" and leaving the decision for later, rather than developing a coherent concept

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2 hours ago, Patrick Tresch said:

No beginner will use and afford the Panavision DXL camera and lenses. The one who does afford will also afford any post production.

Not necessarily true.  

You are perhaps unaware of Pananavision's New Filmmaker Program. which they've had in place for more than twenty-five years now.

Here's a quote from their web site:  "The New Filmmaker Program loans film or digital camera packages (based on availability) to filmmakers for student thesis films, “low-budget” independent features, showcase reels, Public Service Announcements, or any other type of short not-for-profit project." 

 

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17 hours ago, John Blankenship said:

Not necessarily true.  

You are perhaps unaware of Pananavision's New Filmmaker Program. which they've had in place for more than twenty-five years now.

Here's a quote from their web site:  "The New Filmmaker Program loans film or digital camera packages (based on availability) to filmmakers for student thesis films, “low-budget” independent features, showcase reels, Public Service Announcements, or any other type of short not-for-profit project." 

Well I know it exists because I was awarded by them for "Mangrove" but you have access to what is disponible and they shurely will first serve the next Bond film and then the New Filmaker Program if ever. ;-)

 

15 hours ago, Whit Norris said:

The real question about the camera is it quiet and does it have any fans? Are there overheating issues? 

Whit

It's a long time that there are solutions to shoot RED as quiet as Alexa. And on the DLX model they did another fan system with 2 bigger fans, wich BTW you can also have on the Epic using the FanPlate.

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On June 3, 2016 at 8:15 AM, JonG said:

@Marc Wielage maybe people will start rehearsing more and shooting what they need instead of endless amount of coverage because of the volume of files, like before when it was because film was expensive. I have to think that at some point people will wake up and come to the conclusion that doing things the right way is the better way, not just getting endless amounts of coverage because they don't have a plan to begin with. 

One would hope, but I think that whatever has left the whatever. 

CrewC

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On 6/2/2016 at 2:16 PM, Patrick Tresch said:

Everybody knows Geoff Boyles's love affair with RED... But no doubt Panavision embracing RED for their new top of the line is a big statement. But they also had to do this moove when they didn't have the right to use Arri65 in their rental arsenal. Thanks Arri for your visionary attitude! Lol

Ah, that's very interesting -- I hadn't considered that Panavision couldn't get the Alexa 65, which is only available from Arri Rental. 

I continue to believe that the Panavision DXL is just a Panavised Red Weapon, but they are insisting that the entire camera body is new and there's a lot of performance-related features that are different. What's clear is that Panavision is making a big push to market a very striking camera that you can't get any other way, and it's one that does not have the word "Red" visible on it.

On 6/4/2016 at 6:29 PM, Whit Norris said:

The real question about the camera is it quiet and does it have any fans? Are there overheating issues? 

I have been told that the Red Weapon is the quietest camera they've ever built, but I haven't stood next to one on a quiet stage and measured or listened yet. It's fair to say they've been working hard on this and other problems (like timecode and battery life).

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On 6/4/2016 at 1:51 AM, ao said:

I think the point is,  if your dailies were delayed by a full day by shooting this resolution continuously,  more discipline may follow

 

Technology can easily solve that by rolling proxies for dailies, editing etc.   The shift to 8K was going to happen no matter what.  I'd rather see it driven by professional companies like Panavision than by crappy consumer 8k cameras getting into the market first and driving the transition. 

For the sake of boom ops arms around the world, lets hope the data rates promote cutting more often.

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One other potential pitfall I see with the increased resolution of these cameras, is the ability to reframe in post, without a downgrade in the deliverable resolution. I know it's happening already, but I wonder if we'll get to a point where it's more commonplace.

It would be a shame to have to start wiring everyone, just in the event someone decides to reframe a master into a cowboy (or worse) in post.

I don't know that it'll quite come to that... Just musing

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The problem with "re-frame" is; we have to boom into three frames.

One the actual frame.
One the "re-frame".
One "I feel the boom to my frame", DoP psychology - feeling.

Happened to me recently.

- Don't bring the boom into frame.
- Which frame? We take the limits before roll.
- Into the "re-frame" zone.

Also, into the "re-frame" zone was magic arms. Go figure.

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On 6/1/2016 at 0:20 PM, Patrick Tresch said:

It's a nice "RED" camera. Good move from them to enhance the best sensor in town.

 

 

Arri has the best sensor in town IMO :-),  smart of them to convince panavision to put it's logo on it.  Personally I think theres good reason the arri rules the majority of movies / tv.  I'm curious to see if Panavision can get rid of the inherent color problems with the Red.  

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I can only speak for what I see in front of me,  I can pick the red camera every time.  The majority of the best looking films to date shot digitally are shot mostly on Arri...    

Heres to hoping the "panavision" version of the same sensor, yields a more desireable image.  I don't need to test, I have literally hundreds of movies to choose from and compare :-), and have done so many times. Not that I really care much,  just a preference.  Arri clearly states they keep their photo sensors much larger than their competition as it yields a more cinematic result in their eyes. They haven't changed their sensor technology since it's original release in 2010, they also don't anticipate a change any time soon.   Resolution will change, but the actual sensor technology and color science will not.  They got it right from day one.   Those euros get things right,  schoeps, aaton, sennheiser, arri.   Somehow I ended up with zaxcom and red, go figure :-)

Having said that,  I personally purchased a red raven camera and love it.  Just a hobby.  I don't shoot movies. 

Sorry I know this is a sound forum, my oppologies,  this is just a side hobby of mine, studying film,  my day job is purely location sound and post production. 

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On 6/6/2016 at 9:10 AM, Patrick Tresch said:

What do you think about wireless TC? Does it work or is the potential delay due to wireless conversion the hickup? Could the delay be adjusted? If PV chooses this solution I think it must be rock solid? I'm trying to make the TC system choice.

Pat

The Ambient (ACN) solution is rock solid. There are a few different modes that you can use. One of the modes is continually checking with the master unit to ensure that the timecode is still accurate. They all use the crystals in each unit to maintain the timecode so there is no difference between physically jamming multiple units with a cable or jamming them wirelessly. I can't speak as to what other manufacturers are doing. I've been using the ACN for a couple years now and have never had any drift problems or units out of sync.

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On 6/2/2016 at 2:16 PM, Patrick Tresch said:

Everybody knows Geoff Boyles's love affair with RED... But no doubt Panavision embracing RED for their new top of the line is a big statement. But they also had to do this moove when they didn't have the right to use Arri65 in their rental arsenal. Thanks Arri for your visionary attitude! Lol

Ah, that's very interesting -- I hadn't considered that Panavision couldn't get the Alexa 65, which is only available from Arri Rental. 

I continue to believe that the Panavision DXL is just a Panavised Red Weapon, but they are insisting that the entire camera body is new and there's a lot of performance-related features that are different. What's clear is that Panavision is making a big push to market a very striking camera that you can't get any other way, and it's one that does not have the word "Red" visible on it.

On 6/6/2016 at 2:40 PM, Wyatt Tuzo said:

One other potential pitfall I see with the increased resolution of these cameras, is the ability to reframe in post, without a downgrade in the deliverable resolution. I know it's happening already, but I wonder if we'll get to a point where it's more commonplace.

I have yet to work on a recent feature film where we didn't do at least 100 reframes in post. I've done some where it's every other shot on the entire reel. It doesn't really visibly affect picture quality unless you're punching in like 50% or something. A 10-20% blow-up is not really noticeable with 4K material. 

I do agree with many who've cited that takes are going on too long, and too many directors are rolling-rolling-rolling constantly, which is stressful for the boom op, for the actors, and it winds up as way, way too much material. But that's a problem that has nothing to do with the Panavision 8K camera. I don't think directors are aware or will care that these 8K files are massive and take up tons of space.

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