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UK Soundies: what will LEAVE mean for your work?


Philip Perkins

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10 hours ago, Constantin said:

Well, there is a tunnel...

Plus, of course, regular shipping service. If the refugees pay for their ticket, why would the french keep them from getting on a boat to go to Englad?

England is not a part of Schengen. Unless you are an European Citizen with a valid passport  I don't see how you can be let inside the UK. If the British immigration let people in that is on them has nothing to do with the EU.

 

 

 

I remember the time on Christmas 2001 "before my US citizenship and before Bulgaria joined the Euro" I was treated like garbage on the airport only because I was "at the time"  an eastern European. My bags were open and all my belongings "including food" were thrown on the ground . I was forbidden to leave the airport even though my flight was canceled and had to wait on a bench for 32 hours till the next flight.

I have never experienced anything even remotely close to that in the USA and the reason why I am proud to call myself an American.

Because in the USA I am judged by my talent, skills and what I can contribute to others. Nobody cares that I have an accent.  Nobody cares where I come from, what my country's history is and which side Bulgaria took in world war 2.

Believe me I have smarter and very  qualified friends who pick strawberries in the UK.

One of my friends was a pioneer in 3d technology back in the 90s and has been driving a Taxi in London for the last 15 years. If he came to the states instead of the UK he would have easily made it and became a valuable asset to society.

So the problem with immigrants in the UK is not the immigrants themselves but the way UK discriminates against them as a group and does not fully take advantage of their qualities.

 

 

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England is not a part of Schengen. Unless you are an European Citizen with a valid passport  I don't see how you can be let inside the UK. If the British immigration let people in that

But how do you get into Schengen without a passport? You take a boat and drive right up to the border. That's what's happening in Greece. Many of the refugees want to get to the UK, but they get stuck in Calais, because the french police won't allow them across the channel. So effectively, the UK border has been moved to France.

Once the UK actually leaves the EU, french border Police won't hold those refugees back anymore, and they will make their way to Britain. Of course they don't always have passport, that's the thing with refugees, but just like Greece now, Britain will have to figure out what to do with those refugees.

That's the irony here: Britain voted, in part, for the Brexit, because they were afraid of uncontrolled immigration from other EU countries. Instead what they will get is uncontrolled immigration from refugees, rather than their European brothers and sisters

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20 minutes ago, Constantin said:

That's the irony here: Britain voted, in part, for the Brexit, because they were afraid of uncontrolled immigration from other EU countries. Instead what they will get is uncontrolled immigration from refugees, rather than their European brothers and sisters

Not to mention visas granted for companies wishing to import labour from all over the world when they don't want to employ 'tricky' locals who might (horror) wish for some basic rights with their contracts. But I'm being pessimistic here when in fact Tim is going to give all his employees a pay rise at Wetherspoons - along with all the employers who promised "higher wages, lower costs" ...

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1 hour ago, Constantin said:

But how do you get into Schengen without a passport? You take a boat and drive right up to the border. That's what's happening in Greece. Many of the refugees want to get to the UK, but they get stuck in Calais, because the french police won't allow them across the channel. So effectively, the UK border has been moved to France.

Once the UK actually leaves the EU, french border Police won't hold those refugees back anymore, and they will make their way to Britain. Of course they don't always have passport, that's the thing with refugees, but just like Greece now, Britain will have to figure out what to do with those refugees.

That's the irony here: Britain voted, in part, for the Brexit, because they were afraid of uncontrolled immigration from other EU countries. Instead what they will get is uncontrolled immigration from refugees, rather than their European brothers and sisters

Thanks for explaining it in detail.

I just assumed everybody knows what Schengen is.

 

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On June 24, 2016 at 5:11 AM, Constantin said:

But that will only happen after the EU has signed the trade agreement, which is very close.

Britain on the other hand will need to start from scratch and get a new agreement. Which will be important for Britain, but next to irrelevant for the US, so negotiations will be somewhat lopsided.

With the pound at a 30-year low, I don't see lower prices for US gear in the UK anytime soon

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Speaking of racism motivating the "Leave" vote - it's really funny. Well, not funny for the victims of racism as they get abused daily now in the UK. But funny from the point of view of their purported motives. Because while they hate the Poles and other Eastern Europeans, and may be successful in kicking them out of the UK in the next few years, exiting the EU does nothing as far as immigration from the Commonwealth - so instead of the Eastern Europeans, who within a generation (and often less) become highly productive and educated assets to the British economy, now they'll have a lot more immigrants from countries they hate even more - from Africa, Asia etc. It's the same "smart" idea the Nazis had with persecuting Jews in Germany - highly educated and patriotic people (like Einstein for example) - either emigrated to contribute to other countries (like the U.S.) or were murdered at great cost and so were of no help to Germany. And now, there are very few Jews left in Germany, but they'll get plenty of other Middle Eastern people, Muslim and otherwise, and it'll be interesting to see how it all shakes out. Racism is stupid and self-defeating, and we'll see how they like it when it comes back to bite them. 

Yes, it was a democratic vote. It should be respected. Because, after all, it was Mencken who said: "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." You take the good with the bad, regardless. Everybody makes mistakes - the U.S. re-elected Bush after his disastrous first term, for which America, the world, and the Middle East in particular will continue pay for decades to come. Which reminds me, I wonder who will learn any lessons from the Chilcot Report... 

I just feel bad for all the people who through no fault of their own will be caught up in all this. Take care, my British friends - I have lived in London back in the 90's and loved it so, and been back many times. I am sad, and wish you guys the very best.

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It's the same "smart" idea the Nazis had with persecuting Jews in Germany - highly educated and patriotic people (like Einstein for example) - either emigrated to contribute to other countries (like the U.S.) or were murdered at great cost and so were of no help to Germany. And now, there are very few Jews left in Germany, but they'll get plenty of other Middle Eastern people, Muslim and otherwise, and it'll be interesting to see how it all shakes out. Racism is stupid and self-defeating, and we'll see how they like it when it comes back to bite them. 

I'm not sure I understood you right, but that sounds like a very crude theory.

You make it sound like the biggest tragedy of the killing of so many Jews by the Nazis, was the loss of talent, rather than the loss of so many lives.

And then it sounds like you're saying that because of all those killed Jews, there aren't a lot Jews in Germany today, so instead now Muslims take their place, as if today's german government were still following the policies of the Nazis. Kind of. Instead, Germany "gets plenty of other Middle-Eastern people", because there are plenty of people from the Middle East who need help and refuge. This has absolutely nothing to do with anything the Nazis did. Except, perhaps, that Germany is always trying very hard today to be the opposite of what it was back then.

But most importantly, the racism of a few Brits has absolutely nothing to do with that of the Nazis and their state-organised mass murder. They had industrialized mass murder.

That's a bit different from what's going on in the UK today.

Although I do agree that all racism is bad, and what's happening in the UK is bad, but hyperbole won't help.

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No, of course it's obvious that the genocide was the biggest crime - I'm just saying that it was stupid even on its own terms, meaning that Nazis were interested in world conquest a 1000 year Reich and Germany uber alles. And even if you looked at it from just that extremely narrow point of view of Nazi ultimate aims, their racism was counter-productive to their own stated goals - the patriotic Jews could've been working for the greater Germany (a Nazi aim), and instead of the U.S. developing atomic weapons it could have been Germany and so on. Meaning it was insane madness. Shooting yourself in the foot. Even from a Nazi point of view of wanting to build Great Germany. 

And because they lost the war - partially because of such stupid self-defeating policies - now Germany is the opposite of the Nazi ideal (very free and good to refugees), so the long term goals of the Nazis were defeated yet again - bottom line, meaning racism just makes no sense and is completely self-defeating. That was my point - that even from their own racist point of view, they will not achieve their goals, anywhere - whether Germany, or Britain, or Russia (which also expelled many talented Jews and other minorities). It's madness.

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Ah, got it. That makes a lot more sense.

Well, within the Nazi world this racism made total sense. They wanted world domination, but they also thought that the Jews needed to be extinct before they could achieve that. So within that concept, their behaviour made some sense.

Still, I get your point

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Some of my experiences, off topic, but just want to share, once a production company called for a project, after few hours, they called again and told me: "Sorry, But we want some one looks european." Okay, sound guy are the most invisible one in all crew, and if they want a european looks sound guy, what can I say.. The same kind of story happens over and over again, even with equipment dealer.. 

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55 minutes ago, Tong0615 said:

Some of my experiences, off topic, but just want to share, once a production company called for a project, after few hours, they called again and told me: "Sorry, But we want some one looks european." Okay, sound guy are the most invisible one in all crew, and if they want a european looks sound guy, what can I say.. The same kind of story happens over and over again, even with equipment dealer.. 

I don't think what you're saying is "off topic" at all. Whatever people's personal reasons for voting 'brexit' may have been, the rhetoric around the vote in Britain and across Europe seems to have legitimised the kind of 'in your face racism' I associate with the Britain of the 1970's and before. I am afraid the abhorrent rise in racist agendas, abuse and attacks will be with us for sometime. Voters are no longer interested in facts and context, the guy with a big mouth spouting hyperbole, lies, denials, misrepresentation and accusation appeals to voters on an emotional level and the mob feel vindicated. I woke up on June 24 and it was like an evil father xmas had delivered hate or fear to most households in the country. The 'brexiteers' laughing off the gullibility of the voters, retract almost every promise and commitment they said 'brexit' would deliver, while the tiny majority of people who got what they were told they wanted, celebrate poisoning the political landscape of Britain and maybe Europe for a generation. Sad times.

I'm guessing the experiences you describe are hard to document and evidence but I would consider naming and shaming (anonymously), especially the equipment dealers(!). But then again it could be psychologically damaging if you discover most other people in your market just don't care and your actions could damage your career even further than these goons are trying to do. This is a total disgrace and an embarrassment for all Europeans.

I have just been reminded while watching PMQ's it was only 21 years ago 8000 Muslim Bosniaks were the victims of genocidal murder in the European town of Srebrenica - we are all closer to such events than we can often bare to remember - giving 'air time' to racialised rhetoric assuages nothing but it does gestate hate to murderous levels.

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