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Can a digital camera tc drift WHILE rolling?


MartinTheMixer

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15 hours ago, John Blankenship said:

What is the sound of one clock drifting?

 

That would be "tick-TOCK," vs. "TICK-tock."

6 hours ago, chrismedr said:

apparently so far this has been too expensive/difficult to implement, and the tools we have at the moment are not too bad either.

but don't you all agree that it would be nice if all cameras and recorders would sync to a RCC and always be in sync without even thinking about it, every morning, after every battery change?

My opinion is that Red has priorities other than making their timecode absolutely bulletproof to the point where even turning the camera off, rebooting it, or changing speed will not affect timecode stability. It's easier just to put a timecode box on it and jam it twice a day. I don't see this changing. My advice to clients is just to understand the problem and deal with it. Just don't expect the camera to jam itself. 

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9 hours ago, Abe Dolinger said:
11 minutes ago, Marc Wielage said:

That would be "tick-TOCK," vs. "TICK-tock."

My opinion is that Red has priorities other than making their timecode absolutely bulletproof to the point where even turning the camera off, rebooting it, or changing speed will not affect timecode stability. It's easier just to put a timecode box on it and jam it twice a day. I don't see this changing. My advice to clients is just to understand the problem and deal with it. Just don't expect the camera to jam itself. 

The site is not doing right, but maybe it will post this. Tick tock was a good one Mark. The particular camera I am talking about was fried from abuse. I think we had some good dialog here. A few people learned some things. That's good.

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The new Red Weapon (and the Panavised DXL) are said to have much better timecode implementation and very quiet fans. But I haven't had any experience with either yet. It would figure that after about 8 years, Red has more or less perfected the camera and fixed all the holes and bugs over the years and made it pretty solid. 

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The Panavision DXL includes some Ambient ACN stuff (not sure exactly what). Not sure Weapon does... I think the main (only?) path to something better is through an OFFHOLLYWOOD OMOD module that includes ACN. But I'm really not tracking this stuff too carefully. Everyone's welcome to correct whatever they want.

https://shop.offhollywoodny.com/pages/omod

BTW- A friend's Dragon (?) is being upgraded to Weapon...it's been at RED for a month...some part backordered or something. 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Philip Perkins said:

Red will have to prove top me that they finally really have done something professional about sync and audio.  Reference: Alexa.

I just did a RED Weapon shoot this week and we still had issues with the camera like all RED products. Had to reset the camera to get it to take timecode lock even though all the setting were correct. The AC and I both commented that a "RED will always be a RED" 

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On Wednesday, June 29, 2016 at 0:48 PM, Abe Dolinger said:
17 hours ago, Marc Wielage said:

That would be "tick-TOCK," vs. "TICK-tock."

My opinion is that Red has priorities other than making their timecode absolutely bulletproof to the point where even turning the camera off, rebooting it, or changing speed will not affect timecode stability. It's easier just to put a timecode box on it and jam it twice a day. I don't see this changing. My advice to clients is just to understand the problem and deal with it. Just don't expect the camera to jam itself. 

The site is not doing right, but maybe it will post this. Tick tock was a good one Mark. The particular camera I am talking about was fried from abuse. I think we had some good dialog here. A few people learned some things. That's good.

Christian, That was a good one

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1 hour ago, Christian Spaeth said:

see, there you have it! RED does drift!

Would somebody want to tell me why I can't just simply click respond to Jim's comments and have it show up properly

7 minutes ago, Jim Feeley said:

Christian is winning this thread.

So Martin, how was Zaxnet getting fed to the RED? I'll guess an ERX... But forgive my ignorance, will the ERX feed TC and sync to the camera or just TC? Was the ERX connected throughout the day?

Jim, there's no ignorance there. Zaxnet  via ERX will feed time code and audio at the same time. The Zaxnet was connected throughout the day. This camera was totally fried, shot, spent, broken, whatever term one chooses to use. 

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14 minutes ago, MartinTheMixer said:

Would somebody want to tell me why I can't just simply click respond to Jim's comments and have it show up properly

I don't know what you mean by "click respond". If you would like your comment to relate specifically to one other person's post, there are several ways to accomplish this. One way, of course, is to use the "Quote" feature available in the footer of the post. If you prefer, you can just cut and paste relevant text from someone else's post and use it when composing your own comment.

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1 hour ago, Christian Spaeth said:

see, there you have it! RED does drift!

Jeff, this is what happens if I click on the quote button under what you just said. It gives me the box that you see me now typing it

I am once again clicking on the box that has a plus symbol by it for quote and what you said. And then submitting this

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Well, I cannot quite figure out what the problem is from your description. I generally do not use the " + " sign since that is for Multi-quoting (which I've never really figured out). I just click on the word "Quote" located under the post that I wish to quote. That produces a new comment with the post quoted above. Clicking below the quote I can enter my comment --- that's the way it is supposed to work. Sorry you are having this difficulty but I don't know what I can do about it.

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13 minutes ago, Jeff Wexler said:

Well, I cannot quite figure out what the problem is from your description. I generally do not use the " + " sign since that is for Multi-quoting (which I've never really figured out). I just click on the word "Quote" located under the post that I wish to quote. That produces a new comment with the post quoted above. Clicking below the quote I can enter my comment --- that's the way it is supposed to work. Sorry you are having this difficulty but I don't know what I can do about it.

Jeff, what you can do is what you just did. I am guessing that the times that I did get it to work I was accidentally pressing the word quote and not pressing the positive sign. As I've mentioned before on here this is the first time ever ever "forumed". Thanks for straightening me out.

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4 hours ago, MartinTheMixer said:

Jeff, what you can do is what you just did. I am guessing that the times that I did get it to work I was accidentally pressing the word quote and not pressing the positive sign. As I've mentioned before on here this is the first time ever ever "forumed". Thanks for straightening me out.

4 hours ago, MartinTheMixer said:

Jeff, what you can do is what you just did. I am guessing that the times that I did get it to work I was accidentally pressing the word quote and not pressing the positive sign. As I've mentioned before on here this is the first time ever ever "forumed". Thanks for straightening me out.

4 hours ago, MartinTheMixer said:

Jeff, what you can do is what you just did. I am guessing that the times that I did get it to work I was accidentally pressing the word quote and not pressing the positive sign. As I've mentioned before on here this is the first time ever ever "forumed". Thanks for straightening me out.

:)

 

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17 hours ago, ProSound said:

I just did a RED Weapon shoot this week and we still had issues with the camera like all RED products. Had to reset the camera to get it to take timecode lock even though all the setting were correct. The AC and I both commented that a "RED will always be a RED" 

I have done 3 features with multiple REDs on set. I simply send guide track to all the cameras via wireless. The camera audio is used to sync the multiple cameras. One camera audio is then used to sync the multiple tracks of audio from the recorder (manual mode) or just use pluraleyes to auto sync everything. Never had any picture or audio sync issues. Never used or needed to use TC or a TC slate because the guide track is more accurate than timecode since both are sampling at 48,000 times per sec and there internal clocks are very accurate. I have done 2 hour events (continuous record on cameras and recorder) without any issues. TC was invented for a system that uses a time base corrector that generates a master TC which then sends that TC to the camera (gen lock) to permit switching cameras (it is no longer required in switches because of other techniques). The cameras then sync to the master and all cameras snap a frame at exactly the same time so switching doesn't occur in the middle of a frame. WIthout gen lock TC running from the internal clock on each camera will be off by design.

 

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2 hours ago, Storyhub said:

I have done 3 features with multiple REDs on set. I simply send guide track to all the cameras via wireless. The camera audio is used to sync the multiple cameras. One camera audio is then used to sync the multiple tracks of audio from the recorder (manual mode) or just use pluraleyes to auto sync everything. Never had any picture or audio sync issues. Never used or needed to use TC or a TC slate because the guide track is more accurate than timecode since both are sampling at 48,000 times per sec and there internal clocks are very accurate. I have done 2 hour events (continuous record on cameras and recorder) without any issues. TC was invented for a system that uses a time base corrector that generates a master TC which then sends that TC to the camera (gen lock) to permit switching cameras (it is no longer required in switches because of other techniques). The cameras then sync to the master and all cameras snap a frame at exactly the same time so switching doesn't occur in the middle of a frame. WIthout gen lock TC running from the internal clock on each camera will be off by design.

 

Hello, The only problem I see with this, is convincing all involved that it doesn't matter what the Tc screen says on the camera. 

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1 minute ago, al mcguire said:

Martin,

I get the feeling that you have not told us what was happening when you discovered your time code issue.

What were you doing and what gear were you using, and how did you know the RED was drifting ?

 

Al

 

 

AL,  I don't know if you read all this trail of info, but, I knew the camera was drifting because it was so obvious looking at slate vs. Recorder v. Camera. The camera was shot, spent, broken. Thank you, Martin

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Just now, al mcguire said:

That is the second time you have suggested that I have not read the 4 pages discussing this. I have, so please move on.

What were you using ?

 

Move on, ok. Sorry, I don't keep track of what I said to who. I will try to make sure I never say that to you again. I already posted that it was Zaxnet via ERX. Is there something else you are looking for here? Wouldn't matter who connected what, camera was broken.

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