Wireless guitar setup

[Ed Denton]

Apologies in advance if this has been covered, but searches yielded no appropriate info.

When I'm not recording on productions I moonlight as a musician playing guitar and I was wondering whether it would be easy to use my Lectro wireless to transmit the guitar signal to the amp? What kind of cable convert would you need to plug a guitar into say a UM400a or UM200c? Would the impedance of the guitar signal be a problem running into the mic pack transmitter? And also at the other end if I used say a UCR411a or UCR210D before the amp. What could I use to turn the the wireless signal into a usable signal for the amp?

I realise that there are dedicated wireless guitar systems but just in the interest of putting my existing gear to another use I was wondering if it was possible.

Cheers

[LarryF]

Hi Ed,
Not to be a PITA (but I am), all the info you need can be found on the Lectrosonics site. That should be the first place you search for odd cables for Lectro gear. Basically, you go to Lectrosonics.com, then accessories, then audio cables, then scroll down through 30 some odd cables until you find some with a 1/4" phone plug on one end and a 5 pin on the other end. There is even a table discussing the different kinds of guitar pickups.
Since you have read this far and I'm trying to curb my curmudgeonly habits, here is the URL:  http://www.lectrosonics.com/US/Cables-Audio/product/240-mi39ara.html 

Best Regards,
Larry Fisher
p.s. There is even a straight and right angle phone plug version.

[Werner Althaus]

I can't find specs for this cable on the website. Things to look for are an input impedance of 500K to 1Meg and some circuitry to mimic the HF loss of instrument cable, otherwise your guitar will sound too bright..

[LarryF]

2 hours ago, Werner Althaus said:

I can't find specs for this cable on the website. Things to look for are an input impedance of 500K to 1Meg and some circuitry to mimic the HF loss of instrument cable, otherwise your guitar will sound too bright..

Hi Werner,
Not only are there no specs but the link is incorrect for the 139 cable (for servo inputs) since it takes you to the 133 cable which is for older gear. Thanks for bringing it up.

The input impedance is both cables is higher than 1 Meg with flat response and unity gain (FET source-follower). We went for neutral response because trying to guess what kind of cable and cable length a player is used to and putting in a corresponding roll-off would be very frustrating. Putting in an approximate roll-off with a guess is antithetical to our design process. Not even to mention, we don't know whether the cable is coiled or not and does it have a left hand pitch or right hand pitch. Our thought was, design it to be flat and then let the user dial in treble roll off with the guitar, the amplifier or the effects boxes. Or enjoy the extra high end.  I will mention to the crew that we need a correct link and specs on the cable.
Best Regards,
Larry Fisher

[John Blankenship]

Larry may be herding Maine Coons and careening around tight turns in his Porsche more than he sweeps the factory floor these days, but he still rocks!

[Werner Althaus]

On ‎8‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 11:11 AM, LarryF said:

Hi Werner,
Not only are there no specs but the link is incorrect for the 139 cable (for servo inputs) since it takes you to the 133 cable which is for older gear. Thanks for bringing it up.

The input impedance is both cables is higher than 1 Meg with flat response and unity gain (FET source-follower). We went for neutral response because trying to guess what kind of cable and cable length a player is used to and putting in a corresponding roll-off would be very frustrating. Putting in an approximate roll-off with a guess is antithetical to our design process. Not even to mention, we don't know whether the cable is coiled or not and does it have a left hand pitch or right hand pitch. Our thought was, design it to be flat and then let the user dial in treble roll off with the guitar, the amplifier or the effects boxes. Or enjoy the extra high end.  I will mention to the crew that we need a correct link and specs on the cable.
Best Regards,
Larry Fisher

Thanks for the response. I'd like to add that rolling off the treble at the guitar or amp is not the same as using a cable's capacitance to shape guitar tone. It comes down to how a guitar player utilizes his guitar and its controls. If flat frequency response was the ultimate goal in carrying a signal to the amp then low-impedance pickups would rule but many guitar players are sticking with their high Z PUs, interactive guitar volume and tonecontrols shifting resonance peaks up and down and cable capacitance is a big part of that equation as you are aware of since you mentioned coiled chords:) .

To the OP, simply adding a cable after the receiver won't do the same thing since the receiver is a low Z source.

In summary, if you use an acoustic guitar with PU it won't matter whether your wireless emulates cable, simply compensate at the amp. Same goes for electric guitar IF you don't use your volume and tone controls to get certain sounds. But if you're one of those players who use your guitars' controls the "old school" way (amp dimed and everything controlled at the guitar) then be aware that those controls will be acting differently. I hope this adds to the discussion.

[LarryF]

Hi Werner,
I absolutely agree with what you have written. The interaction of a high impedance guitar pickup with a zillion turns of wire, various high impedance volume and tone pots in the guitar, capacitor networks, various cable lengths and lord knows what kind of British amp input is not something we chose to even attempt to duplicate.   We made it neutral and will let the ears of the user decide if they like it or not but neutral may not be what the user is looking for.
Best,
Larry F
 

[Ed Denton]

Thanks for your tireless efforts Larry!

That cable looks great for getting the guitar into the Tx. What about going from a Rx to amp? Suggestions for going from the balanced mic output to the amp. I guess it needs some kind of reverse DI box?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LarryF]

32 minutes ago, Ed Denton said:

Thanks for your tireless efforts Larry!

That cable looks great for getting the guitar into the Tx. What about going from a Rx to amp? Suggestions for going from the balanced mic output to the amp. I guess it needs some kind of reverse DI box?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hi Ed,
It's hard to believe but we don't have that type cable listed under accessories nor do we make one. I thought we had everything. We were probably afraid of the liability if we quoted some starving musician with a weak heart our price on a very simple cable.

Simply take a guitar cord, straight or coiled, cut off one end at whatever length you want (if you split it in two, you can make a spare). Hook the shield wires (ground) of the cable to pin 1 of a 3 pin XLR female and the center conductor of the cable to pin 2 of the XLR. Leave pin 3 unconnected. You can run the Lectro receiver at any output level you desire since the output cannot overload; the gain control is simply an attenuator and the receiver audio is always "wide open".  I recommend a high output level setting on the receiver with whatever reduced gain setting you then need on the guitar amp. High output levels from the receiver will reduce hum loops and noise pickup in the cable. The receiver output level is around one Volt and comparable to what a good passive guitar pickup puts out. The impedance of the receiver is below 500 Ohms (low impedance) and will drive any guitar amp happily. You can drive hundreds of feet of cable, by the way.
Best Regards,
Larry Fisher

[Ed Denton]

You rock Larry!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Patrick Wilson]

Nice Ed Lectro guitar rigs would be sick.