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Lectro Transmitter Gain Settings


THSnodgrass

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I am curious what gain setting (give or take) my fellow Lectro users find themselves settling into most often for unscripted work where your subject could laugh/scream etc without notice. I know that mic placement, lav choice, and talents speaking levels can vary this number quite drastically. So lets just assume you placed the mic close to the sternum, under one layer of clothing and you are a Lectro guy/gal so you don't have remote gain control. Where would you typically start with your tx gain?

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   You should always TRY to approximate the Talents delivery volume as best you can upfront, then, using the -20 and -10db lights on the unit set the gain so that the -10 light tickles the RED "a little bit.."... that is your best approximate setting for any SMQ, SMv style transmitter.... the 400 series trans.  works the same way...

   As always consult the manual (online) for all the ACTUAL directions for gain structure setting, but that's the just of it...  Any other way is winging it a bit... I have seen some people always keep them at say, 18 or 22... across the board... for some that works out, but the proper setting is done with the lights...  Those transmitters want the setting tickling that -10 light..  setting too low with no red on the light isn't the correct way to do it, unless you KNOW something really loud is coming.. even then, with the headroom from the correct setting and the limiter, your usually good to go.

 

We do this with each person we mic, or do it ourselves after taking a listen to the talent speak a bit... asking them for their best volume works great..

 

From manual

 

4) Observe the SM Modulation LEDs while speaking or singing into the microphone at the same voice level that will be used during the program. While holding the AUDIO button, press the Up or Down arrow buttons until the both the -20 and -10 LEDs glow green, with the -10 LED occasionally flickering red (-10 dB to +0 dB Signal Level as shown in the chart below with only occasional forays into the +0 dB to +10 dB range). 

Note: Setting the audio level too high reduces the dynamic range of if the audio signal. Setting the audio level too low may cause hiss and noise in the audio. 

 

 

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30 minutes ago, afewmoreyears said:

   You should always TRY to approximate the Talents delivery volume as best you can upfront, then, using the -20 and -10db lights on the unit set the gain so that the -10 light tickles the RED "a little bit.."... that is your best approximate setting for any SMQ, SMv style transmitter.... the 400 series trans.  works the same way...

   As always consult the manual (online) for all the ACTUAL directions for gain structure setting, but that's the just of it...  Any other way is winging it a bit... I have seen some people always keep them at say, 18 or 22... across the board... for some that works out, but the proper setting is done with the lights...  Those transmitters want the setting tickling that -10 light..  setting too low with no red on the light isn't the correct way to do it, unless you KNOW something really loud is coming.. even then, with the headroom from the correct setting and the limiter, your usually good to go.

 

We do this with each person we mic, or do it ourselves after taking a listen to the talent speak a bit... asking them for their best volume works great..

 

From manual

 

4) Observe the SM Modulation LEDs while speaking or singing into the microphone at the same voice level that will be used during the program. While holding the AUDIO button, press the Up or Down arrow buttons until the both the -20 and -10 LEDs glow green, with the -10 LED occasionally flickering red (-10 dB to +0 dB Signal Level as shown in the chart below with only occasional forays into the +0 dB to +10 dB range). 

Note: Setting the audio level too high reduces the dynamic range of if the audio signal. Setting the audio level too low may cause hiss and noise in the audio. 

 

 

Thanks for the detailed response... I am however well aware of the Lectrosonics suggested technique.. Karl's recent video added to that in mentioning that the gain setting actually affects range as well because of the squelch technology's use of signal to noise ratio. As mentioned in my post, I'm speaking of unscripted situations where you really have no clue what type of levels you may encounter during the shoot and just basing your gain settings off of a quick test where you allow talents speaking levels to just bump the limiter could result in clipping during a loud laugh or scream.

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If the transmitter is set too high, it might get "crunchy" on the laughs or screams, but it won't "clip" in the digital sense. Not that I've experienced anyway. Your recorder might clip, if not set properly, but even that is unlikely with proper gain staging and limiters on professional gear.

It really just depends on what's more important... increased range and quality for most everything with some crunchiness from time to time, or absolutely no crunchiness. If you want no crunchiness ever, then you have to set transmitters low and deal with some low-level hiss, which is pretty easy to get rid of later.

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I personally don't like the sound of the limiters on these. So I set it very low and have never had any range issues or noise issues despite Lectro's manual. I use the noise reduction in the receivers, though. So that may be helping. As I recall, Simon Hayes also set the levels very low to avoid the onboard limiters in Les Miserables. On a reality show with collar mounted Sanken COS-11's I set it as low as 15. This seems to work well with sudden loud sections. I set it the same for chest mounts. One trick is to hold the mic on yourself where you intend to mount it on talent, then yell or get loud. Observe the transmitter and set it accordingly. Opinions may differ on this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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7 hours ago, THSnodgrass said:

Thanks for the detailed response... I am however well aware of the Lectrosonics suggested technique.. Karl's recent video added to that in mentioning that the gain setting actually affects range as well because of the squelch technology's use of signal to noise ratio. As mentioned in my post, I'm speaking of unscripted situations where you really have no clue what type of levels you may encounter during the shoot and just basing your gain settings off of a quick test where you allow talents speaking levels to just bump the limiter could result in clipping during a loud laugh or scream.

 

If you understand and are aware of the suggested techniques you should then easily be able to arrive at a setting that works for you..

If set at the red tickle -10  for a louder test level, it doesn't bump into the limiter enough to matter...  If you set that level at tickling the red on quiet levels...It may hit that limiter often.. it does work pretty well though .. a loud laugh or sudden sneeze or loud passage is no problem. If someone goes on a shouting rant for 2 minutes, then it may be crunch time.

Setting it low isn't really too problematic ..Especially if you have a feeling things may get loud.

Win win.

You sound like you have a handle on it.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 1/26/2017 at 6:32 PM, BAB414 said:

I never knew the gain setting affected the range. That is really surprising to me.
 

Keep in mind that we went to the extreme low end of the gain to illustrate this point. I was actually surprised how little it appeared to affect the sound - the noise floor was not as high as I expected. But it did affect the range to have such a low level of modulation. 

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Really?   My sm's start at 11 if on talent with a cos-11 wired all lectro with Venue receiver at -5 and the gain on my yamaha o1v96 at about 10 o'clock. If the actor has a strong voice the tx goes to 9.  I get a good, full audio signal and if the talent starts screaming and squaring out the rx then I start bringing down the tx.  I don't see how I could ever run them hotter on my rig.  If I bumped them up to your levels my rig would explode. Why are my setting so different then yours?  Is it the way the lavs are wired?

BTW, my reception is great. Hardly a problem.

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I'm usually at 30 also for regular speaking voice. Venue +8. COS11 or 4071 wired servo. I was of a mindset previously that sound quality (not range) was affected with transmitter too low. But now I know it's not, I am struggling to change my habits. I don't have range issues, but I suppose I can always pump it up when I do, and start lower. It means cranking the Solice, but there's room to spare and very little noise. I really don't like squaring out!

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18 hours ago, RPSharman said:

I'm usually at 30 also for regular speaking voice. Venue +8. COS11 or 4071 wired servo. I was of a mindset previously that sound quality (not range) was affected with transmitter too low. But now I know it's not, I am struggling to change my habits. I don't have range issues, but I suppose I can always pump it up when I do, and start lower. It means cranking the Solice, but there's room to spare and very little noise. I really don't like squaring out!

It must be the lav wiring being the difference.  I have friends that have my same set up that use similar settings as you and the only difference is their lavs are servo wired and mine are all lectro.

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What do you mean "all lectro"? Universal? I've wired most of my Sankens for universal and usually start out at 22 on an SM. You guys at 30 are you using red dots?

 

Mirror, it must be the wiring. Impossible to know without disassembling one and looking. I've seen some with resistors some without, with caps, without. Different pins... If you didn't do it yourself or specify when you ordered them then who knows really. though you may be able to do some sleuthing with a multimeter and a paperclip. I don't have to tell you this but if you're happy with the sound I wouldn't worry too much. 

To be specific, my universal Sankens have 1kOhm to pin 1. I have two red dots wired servo that I usually start at 30 or greater. 

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The UM(a) and all SM and newer work on servo. The old UM without the 'a' require what is termed as "universal" wiring at LSC, which is where I usually buy lavs. I only have one universally wired lav as a get out of jail card. All transmitters since 2007, and earlier 1st generation SMs all use servo wiring. I find the higher noise level on the universal wiring a problem on quiet scenes.

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Mine are all wired SM only configuration. Same as Robert I suspect. I find the same noise level issue as him with Universal wired lavs. I set my levels with the assistance of the meter on the 411 and/or Venue system display, keeping in mind that it is not a bad thing to tickle the red. I find the red to be when the graphic display square waves for a brief second. I see that and back it off a bit. If there is a yelling/talking normally bits then I set it accordingly so as to not overdrive. All depends though. Big voice can go down to 22. Low talker up to 36. In the end there is also a "what are my ears telling me" check as well.

 

CRAIG

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