PhillySound37 Posted May 13, 2017 Report Share Posted May 13, 2017 Can the fine folks here recommend some good lav options, apart from the Countryman B3, that I can easily purchase that are pre-wired to work with the old VHF Lectro M187 transmitter? In an ideal world, I'd get a Lav that would both work with the M187 and could either also work with newer Lectro / TA5 connection transmitters or be easily adapted to do so. But I realize this might not be possible because of differences in wiring (I'm a newbie to production sound)! Here's a little context for my question: I recently acquired several old Lectrosonics VHF wireless receivers and trasmitters (CR187 Rx, M187 Tx), and they're in really good shape. The units came with old M-150 lavs, which don't sound so great to my ear. So I started looking for options to give them new life. Being realtively new to production sound, I thought "oh, I'll just get a Sanken Cos-11D with a TA5F connector." I also thought this would be a good investment because as I upgrade to newer lectro units, I could retain the Sankens -- I'm thinking of getting a couple of lectro PDR units. Of course, when I plugged it into the M187, I hardly got any signal at all. I think this is a wiring issue, but I don't have the skill or the resources to go in and rewire the Sanken (not yet any way). As I began my search for a good lav to work with these systems that is still available and is already wired for the M187, I found the Countryman B3 (Adorama has them in stock and they are already pre-wired for the M187). But is the B3 as good as I'll get for the M187 without having to rewire a lav? I might be willing to try to rewire the 11D, but then I'd likely loose the forward compatibility of the 11d with newer lectro systems, yes? Thanks in advance for any input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathaniel Robinson Posted May 15, 2017 Report Share Posted May 15, 2017 A rambling but still incomplete answer: Modern Lectrosonics transmitters have a different front end than your VHF transmitters. This modern front end supports both "servo" and "universal" wiring. Any lav wired "servo" is not going to work with your VHF units. But compatible wiring may be possible. Some information about that here: http://www.lectrosonics.com/Support/component/com_fsf/catid,2/faqid,95/view,faq/ Here is the VHF wiring input: And the UHF wiring input: You'll notice that figure 2 on both diagrams is the same. Most mics are wired that way, notable exceptions being the Sanken COS11d and DPA mics. So I would think that Countryman, Tram, and Lectrosonics lavs will work with both your VHF and more modern transmitters. The shield termination is different for VHF, as noted at top of this page: http://www.lectrosonics.com/Support/Microphone-Wiring/vhf-transmitter-5-pin-input-jack-wiring.html Finally, the Sanken COS11d is notoriously hard to rewire due to some insulative material on its wires. I prefer to let the pros handle that one (and I fix guitar amps for fun). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted May 15, 2017 Report Share Posted May 15, 2017 I wire all lavs for Lectro using the TA5 connector as per figure 2 in the chart above. They all work just fine wired that way including the old Lectro VHF 185 series units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillySound37 Posted May 15, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2017 19 minutes ago, Nathaniel Robinson said: You'll notice that figure 2 on both diagrams is the same. Most mics are wired that way, notable exceptions being the Sanken COS11d and DPA mics. So I would think that Countryman, Tram, and Lectrosonics lavs will work with both your VHF and more modern transmitters. Finally, the Sanken COS11d is notoriously hard to rewire due to some insulative material on its wires. I prefer to let the pros handle that one (and I fix guitar amps for fun). Thanks for the info! I'm still trying to digest it, but... would one of these Sanken 11-Ds linked below with "universal wiring" work for both my current VHF transmitters and the newer Lectro UHF ones? https://www.adorama.com/sa11wnbkunle.html http://www.locationsound.com/sanken-cos-11d-modified-with-2-wire-universal-wiring-2516 I know that the mic (cable?) functions as the antenna while in use with the VHF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted May 15, 2017 Report Share Posted May 15, 2017 Yes they work just fine with the VHF 185 & UHF SMQV units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillySound37 Posted May 15, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2017 Great. Thanks, and one more stupid question: would such mics also work with Lectro PDR? The manual says: "The input connection and wiring is compatible with microphones pre-wired for “compatible” and “servo bias” configurations to feed 5-pin inputs on Lectrosonics wireless microphone transmitters." I'm assuming "compatible" here means the same thing as "universal"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted May 15, 2017 Report Share Posted May 15, 2017 The TA 5 on the PDR takes the same wiring setup as the wireless transmitters. BTW, there are no stupid questions only stupid answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryF Posted May 15, 2017 Report Share Posted May 15, 2017 1 hour ago, PhillySound37 said: [snip] I'm assuming "compatible" here means the same thing as "universal"? Yep, LEF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Ludwig Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 I bought two Lectrosonics M187 wireless lavs (belt-pack transmitters and receivers) for my school's TV studio and control room in 2006. I've been away a few years and am back now. One of the units still works fine. The receiver is permanently plugged into AC for power and the XLR for audio is permanently plugged into input 9 on the audio console, as it was in 2006. Great. The other receiver is also plugged into AC with XLR in input 10 on the console. However, the belt-pack transmitting unit for that second receiver has gone missing. My question: Can I just buy another M187 belt-pack transmitter online and have it work with that second receiver? I ask because I did not originally "sync" the transmitters and receivers, so I don't know if or how that would or could be done. Also, I've heard that some older frequencies used for wireless microphones are no longer used for that, so how can I find out if that second receiver uses an "approved" frequency, and if it does not, can I change to a different "approved" frequency somehow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tourtelot Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 Maybe Larry Fisher has a clearer idea but you may just be stuck with looking on Ebay or some such thing. Since the 185s were all fixed frequency units, you will need to locate a years-old transmitter with the EXACT frequency as printed on the receiver (inside the battery compartment maybe?). That's a tough ask. Instead, maybe look on Ebay for a complete set. They pop up from time to time and should be super cheap. If you can afford a bit more, Lectro 195 sets come up a bit more often and are a nice improvement over the 185s in any other case. Just one of many: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lectrosonics-UHF-Wireless-Microphone-Set-CR185-M185-Lavaliere-Mic-XLR-197-125MHz/154219714498?hash=item23e83617c2:g:e3kAAOSwildfxFqN BTW, one of my happiest days in the movie business was the day I bought four 185 sets. Reliable wireless after some years with early Audio Ltd and Vega units. Paradise! D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryF Posted February 9, 2021 Report Share Posted February 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, tourtelot said: Maybe Larry Fisher has a clearer idea but you may just be stuck with looking on Ebay or some such thing. Since the 185s were all fixed frequency units, you will need to locate a years-old transmitter with the EXACT frequency as printed on the receiver (inside the battery compartment maybe?). That's a tough ask. Instead, maybe look on Ebay for a complete set. They pop up from time to time and should be super cheap. [snip] D. Exactly what I would have said. And as Doug said, you must match the =>exact<= frequency. M185 or M187 will work with those receivers. LEF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted February 9, 2021 Report Share Posted February 9, 2021 Location sound wireless reality '80s style: fixed freqs! Fingers crossed, but virtually no RF in the air then compared to now. Unless the OP is very lucky it's time to send that orphan receiver to EBay and move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Reineke Posted February 9, 2021 Report Share Posted February 9, 2021 I still have two 185 systems. the VHS blocks I have are more reliable now than in the early 90s. Finding a matched 185 Tx would be like playing the lottery. The wiring systematics above posted by Nathaniel in 2017 is valid for the old systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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