DPA 4017B Vs CMIT 5U

[julian]

4017 does well in humidity. Been in the rain with it many times as well as in Cambodia in very humid conditions. 

 

I also use it a lot with an HMa and you just need to crank up the gain. 

 

I chose the C preamp for the size which is amazing. I sometimes find it a bit sensitive on the boom with regards to handling noise with the included rycote basket. I've eventually got some harder lyres which seem to help a lot. Might consider an inline cut for more run and gun stuff. 

 

4017 also has surprisingly good reach and sounds great indoors. Great for interviews. However it's still a shotgun mic, so indoors on a wide shot I'd still prefer a super cardiod like the MKH50 etc. 

[Brian]

I don't want to gain the HMa up anymore than I have to.  It's the weakest point in the signal chain.  In quiet situations you start to hear it.

[LarryF]

8 hours ago, Brian said:

I don't want to gain the HMa up anymore than I have to.  It's the weakest point in the signal chain.  In quiet situations you start to hear it.

Cranking up the Hma gain allows you to reduce the receiver gain by the same amount dropping the link noise (RF LINK) by the same amount. Check the manual for exact instructions. If the Hma is indeed the weak link, it will make a big improvement. Best, LEF

[Constantin]

After praising the 4017 so much, I just wanted the add that the CMIT is also an awesome mic. The way it handles speech transients (not sure if that is the correct term), like T, D, K and also plosives, is unparalleled. They just sound silkier, smoother. 

I mean, we are talking miniscule differences, but that's how I hear them. Someone else may hear them differently 

[Mobilemike]

+1 to that @Constantin

 

I have a CMIT5U up today at client request, with the hi boost and low cut on, and it does sound very smooth and really nice. I'm liking it quite a bit today.  

 

-Mike

[Armin Siegwarth]

In some Rycote baskets I got some coloration with CMIT. And I feel it gets dull easier than others (esp. Sennheisers) with the windcover on. So I use the high gain in the basket. This is why I would not recommend the Mini CMIT.

But maybe Cinela hasn't that problem but I would check on that.

I am also thinking about buying 4017b but no real world experience yet.



did you know these six comparison videos - I think they are great.
on street, in basement, in toilet etc

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCb9LUd_2GXRUJHOQRuOiARw




Files for download
http://filmindustrypro.com/blog/mictest/

lots of low end on DPA and CMIT - not so on 8060

[Dave Pullmer]

On 9/12/2017 at 6:46 AM, Brian said:

 

My only concern was this.  The 4017 had considerably lower output then the CMIT and even my MK4.  I'm talking 10 db at the preamp on the Cantar x3.  That was slightly alarming for me as when it gets quiet with scenes I am struggling sometimes with the noise floor of the HMa.  With another 10db needed I feel it would reveal maybe to much of the wireless noise floor that we all deal with.  I am talking about quiet sets and quiet locations only.  Usually it's negligible.

 

Thought I'd revive this thread as I've been trying out a 4017B this week. Been loving the sound, weight (or lack of), reach, and the lack of off axis coloration for the documentary work I do. I also like its ability to smoothly transition from exteriors to interiors for run and gun when I dont have time to switch mics.

 

Compared to my MKH50 I have noticed the 4017B requires about 10db more gain at the mixer, and as Brian mentioned I haven't noticed it much in practical locations with normal BG noise. I have noticed a bit more of a noise floor with the mic in quieter locations though.

 

Perhaps it is negligible but I thought I'd see if others have heard this with their 4017.

[Masaki Hatsui]

Surprised to hear that 4017 is noisier than Schoeps, because I found mine has hotter output and I have barely noticed its self noise.
And now I looked at DPA's website and figured out that C amp has more voltage on output and has less self noise than B's.

[chrismedr]

1 hour ago, Masaki Hatsui said:

Surprised to hear that 4017 is noisier than Schoeps, because I found mine has hotter output and I have barely noticed its self noise.

 

I think Dave was comparing it to the MKH 50, which has quite a hot output and low self noise.

chris

[Dave Pullmer]

Thats right Chris. I havent compared it to a cmit so I dont have that point of reference. I know there alot of 4017B users out there that are happy campers, I just wasnt used to the minimal self noise in comparison to my 50.

[Masaki Hatsui]

Yes I have read correctly. But, OP Brian was comparing with Schoeps equivalent, which has more or less the same output level. When Sennheiser's output has about 10dB hotter signal, it is actually hard to say where the noise comes from. To have same gain on both microphones, you are adding 10 dB on 4017's whole signal chain. It could be your recorder's self noise amplified 10 dB louder.

From what I experienced (what I hear in my ear), Schoeps has slightly louder self noise than 4017C, but given the fact on the manufacture's website, it is possible you get more noise with B version amp, that I didn't know (I don't use B). 4017C is in my opinion dead silent.

[Dave Pullmer]

This is true, could be my recorder or headphone amp perhaps. Been using it with a mix pre 6 and 633 the past week. And will take a listen back to some of the recordings.

 

With no low cut on the 4017C, how have you found it for handling noise? Im thinking of trying the C pre amp before I go with the B.

[Constantin]

Whatever the specs say, in practice the 4017 is quieter than the CMIT. Currently I only use the B-preamp as I‘ve been having issues with the C amp. Perhaps that is something to be aware of. 

I had a C preamp that was very noisy with the Lectro HM transmitter, but it was fine with any of Zaxcom‘s and Audio Ltd tx. I sent it to DPA in Denmark and they said it’s fine. But I still had the problem. So I sent it to them again with a recording of the problem. This time they sent me a new preamp on warranty. This one is much much better, but I still feel like it’s a bit noisier than the B preamp, but I haven’t done a proper comparison. Also, the Cedar on my cart has hidden the latter issue quite well.

 

with regards to low cut: I tried the Rycote Tac!t, but it’s highly prone to rfi. Then I just used the low cut in the transmitter 

[Masaki Hatsui]

With proper mic suspension and proper boom handling, I don't have any problem with just a HPF engaged on my Nomad.

(Picture of my modified Rycote inVision supension is here)

Now I've changed the Lyre suspension to more softer one on the connector side (DPA sells there own Rycote windjammer with green Lyre inside. But I found it little too soft if you use two of them. Better result mixing one normal and one softer Lyre).

I think at the moment the most adapted suspension is Cinela's Cosi but a little too big for interior use.

 

[pindrop]

As I have both c and b preamps I did a quick comparison and like Constantin I get the impression that c is noisier than b.
Must do a proper test at some point, any suggestions about how to conduct this without testing equipment?
I'd guess that you could see how the gain compares for both pre-amps by playing a fixed tone from a speaker with the mic in the same position and see whether you need more gain with one rather than the other pre-amp to achieve the same level, and having established whether there's any difference in base gain, then cover the mic with a very thick noise baffle (sound blankets etc.) and wind the gain up a comparable amount (depending on the results of the base gain setting test) record the results and compare the noise on a clear level meter perhaps in a DAW and arrive at a rough comparison of self noise? The self noise of the recorder pre-amp itself would be roughly the same?
Would that work for a rough but practical test?

[Dave Pullmer]

Constantin, I believe Ive read of this issue before w/ C pre amp and lectro TXs. We have a mixer in town that uses the 4017c with a smqv and a small ambient 48v power supply on the pole for this reason.

 

I ended up going with the B pre amp, as it works with my current zeppelin and other shockmounts, but I am interested in picking up the C so I can use a Cosi and get the kit even smaller. RFI issues with the Tacit cable doesnt sound promising.

 

I A/B'd the 4017B with my MKH50 again yesterday, and this may be funny but I think what I perceived as 'noise floor' of the 4017B mic may have been the flatter frequency response I wasnt used to. I noticed I could hear the noise of the 50 in the mid/highs and it was less pronounced in the lows, but the 4017 I could hear it more flat through the whole spectrum. 

 

I was listening to the BG in my kitchen, and when I took my headphones off the 4017B sounded the same as what my ears were hearing. The 50 not so much. By no means a scientific test, but it was interesting listening for the nuances of the mics.

[OnTheSoundSideOfLife]

Dave, did you record any of your 4017B vs MKH 50 comparisons? I'd be interested to listen to those!

[Dave Pullmer]

2 hours ago, OnTheSoundSideOfLife said:

Dave, did you record any of your 4017B vs MKH 50 comparisons? I'd be interested to listen to those!

Unfortunately I didnt make a recording! 

[Gazwas]

Sorry to resurrect a now very old post but wanted to see if peoples opinions have changed on this topic especially with the current trends in how vocal in TV/Film are mixed or even Ai VO is processed (think super hyped 1980's new movies release trailers)?

 

I bought a 4017b in 2020 as I'd done all the listening to as many samples as I could for these two microphones and came to very much the same conclusion as those above that they sounded so very similar. Spending the extra on the CMIT seemed pointless. I've been happy with the DPA but it's become increasings evident that I'm enjoying the sound signature of this microphone less and less.

 

Maybe I'm a vinyl kind of a guy but does the 4017 just sound too clinical and neutral?

 

I had to scratch the itch and got a good deal on a new CMIT and boy oh boy, what a difference.

 

Early days with the Schoeps and could be the honeymoon phase but I've not pointed it at anyone yet (mainly corporate interviews etc) that it didn't sound amazing on. Plus had great comments from people who moaned before that they hated the sound of their own voice yet on playback saying how amazing their vocal sounded and how did I achieve.