darasingh Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 hi all I need suggestions for a good portable hand held recorder(preferably flash card based) which can suffice for a quick and a good stereo ambience recording....minimum capabilities 48k/24bit wav... hows marantz pmd620? I am more or less going for Sony PCM-D50 or D1(confused)....feel free to suggest a better option..cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filipe Chagas Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 The zoom h4 behaves very nicely, and it goes for half the price of the d50, the trade off its the plasticky construction, but if that is not much of an issue its a good option economics wise. Also the size and the time it takes going from off to record ready(around 13 seconds) are about the same of the d50. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Leonard Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 I have them all. The Sony D50 sounds terrific, but I've had major quality control problems with it and the PCM-D1. Both have had input switches fail (mic/line), gain controls fail, and input connectors (3.5mm) fail. Those aren't great odds. Extra battery carriers cost $120 apiece. The D50 is also about the minimum cost to produce a reasonably honest 24-bit recording. The other little recorders simply don't have the guts to deliver 24-bit and mean it. The D1 has a far superior front end, both mics and preamps, but consumes batteries at an alarming rate and is about triple the cost. If you're careful with it - it produces stunning results, every bit the match of a Schoeps wide cardioid and a 702, minus the flexibility and control of attenuators, low cuts, specialized windscreens, etc. The D1 also has an amazing "limiter" system - that simultaneously records a second copy of the main recording 20 db down, then, if switched on, seamlessly normalizes and substitutes the lower level recording if the main recording peaks past 0. The PMD-620 is noisy and plasticky - its preamps are little chip-based cheapo ones a bit above the grade of the Olympus voice recorders. Its built-in mics sound surprisingly good, but thin, and you'll need to manufacture some sort of windscreen as they're electret condensers exposed to the elements under a mesh cage. I really like the Olympus LS-10 recorder, though more for its metal construction and simplicity than pure audio quality. It's noisier than the Sonys and has less mic gain, but it's smaller and uses less battery power. All of these little guys do well with a line-level feed from your existing high-end gear. Then they sound great! Eric Leonard KFI AM-640 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 If you have the money, Sony D50. If you are poor, Zoom H2 (under $200). Philip Perkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 once more: The rule: Generally speaking, you get what you pay for" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darasingh Posted March 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 after all this it seems the sony D50 is the clear winner... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafaeldelauz Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 What about the Marantz PDm 661? It looks good in paper. Does anybody have experience with this new toy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 The D1 also has an amazing "limiter" system - that simultaneously records a second copy of the main recording 20 db down, then, if switched on, seamlessly normalizes and substitutes the lower level recording if the main recording peaks past 0. This limiter has been carried over to the D50 as well... -vin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick M Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Another opinion... If you have the money - the D1 for sure. If you don't have the money... I went for a M-Audio Microtrak II. It uses a CF card. L & R 1/4 " balanced line inputs with separate level controls, a biggie for me. I use it line level in only. I would imagine the 2 ch mic level mini probably sounds bad. Easy to use controls, readable meters and not too cheap feeling in the hand. Good street price at Guitar Center. PC sees it as an external drive. Rather big negative is the internal rechargeable battery, lasts about 3 hours tops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pshap Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 I own a Zoom H4 and have been using it a lot recently. I am happy with it.... I like the H4N..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 I just picked up a Zoom H4n, and thought I would report my first impressions. Built-in mics sound nice ... not fantastic or amazing ... but nice. Mic Pre-amps are not very quiet, but I plugged in a couple of different mixers and the line in was good. The built in mics seem to have less self noise than the external inputs. There are 4 channel inputs. There is a 1/8" stereo mini plug on the back (with plug-in power) that will bypass the built-in mics ... could be handy for transcriptions. It can do 4 track recording using built in mics OR the 1/8" stereo plug plus the 2 combo xlr-1/4 jacks, but only in pairs of channels - no single channel recording. The tape out of my mixer worked well with the 1/8" stereo input of the recorder. The H4n can provide 24v and 48v phantom to the xlr jacks, but those noisy pre-amps are unusable for anything quiet. On top of that, the unused channel of a pair gets noisier if nothing is plugged into it. Recording high SPL stuff like a rock concert may be OK. The external power supply occasionally caused some 60hz hum on my test recordings. External power is 5vdc, so I haven't yet built any kind of external battery to power it. (don't know if it will take 6v) Claims 4 hours record time on 2 alkaline AAs. I got about 2 hours on some older Ni-MHs. Also has a "stamina mode" that limits record resolution to extend battery life. Has broadcast .wav and .mp3 recording. Max resolution is 96k/24bit in 2 track mode - and 48k/24bit in 4 track mode. Can be used as a computer USB audio interface and as a CF card reader. It is smaller than I imagined it would be. I haven't figured out track naming yet (seems limited to renaming after recording) and the layout of controls and plugs will make it interesting to try to use in a bag, but so far I am impressed with this little machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDigitaL Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 I just picked up the H4N yesterday. I'm going to play with it this weekend. I'm going to use it for back-up audio in field/bag work. I hope it is not to noisy. I'm making a stereo cable for my 442 small XLR outs and going into the XLR ins on the H4N. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Waelder Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 With some hesitation, I recommend that you take a look at one of the Ares II recorders from Nagra: http://www.nagraaudio.com/pro/pages/products_ares_mII.php Advantages: Nagra quality and reliability, genuine 24-bit recording, built-in capability to accept mikes with XLR connector (via a supplied adapter), attached mikes of Nagra quality, built-in speaker. Disadvantages: the price is about $1200 (I think) That's obviously a lot more than the other choices. But if the objective is a suitable recorder for professional applications, it may be worth it. Having posted links to reviews of the Nagra VI, I should add that I have no relationship with Nagra. I just thought their recorder was worth consideration. Sometimes, even if you purchase something else, it's useful to compare your choice against a top-line product. David Waelder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roundbadge Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 What about the Tascam units? DR-100,DR-1 & DR-07. .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebaume Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 Of course I have yet to even see a Zoom H4n, and it's probably not possible given all the surface mounted stuff they're going with these days but it would be sweet if somehow one could be modified so that you could bypass it's built in mics and in it's place send two other signals....say direct outs from a 442. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 ebaume, but it already has an 1/8" input for this, why would you not want to use it? I agree the connector is not the best in the world though. Maybe what you could try is to replace the 1/8" female (most probably a pcb mounted connector) to something more robust but same footprint. seems like a not-so-easy job to me. i dont know if it is worth all the effort. -vin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 With some hesitation, I recommend that you take a look at one of the Ares II recorders from Nagra: David Waelder Dear Dave, Imho, the problem is that you have no way of adding memory to this recorder. Secondly, the interchangeable mic design (which is great) does not give the possibility of plugging in a proper MS (or XY) stereo mic, even with the extension cable adapter - if i got that right from the brochure. Once again the need for a 48V Ph (that is missing in almost all other recorders of this kind - except the Dr100 and the Marantz PMD 6xx). But then, with all the people talking about bad or noisy preamps it makes no sense plugging in a great stereo mic, does it? Oh well, i went in and got the Sony PCMD50 because it had some of the features i wanted, not all. Not one recorder of this kind out there in the market that actually is fully loaded. The closest to a fully pro machine is the SD702. best regards -vin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 With the H4n you should be able to record atmos using it'smics plus timecode on the third channel, producing a sync atmo that can be useful. Anyone can try and report back please? A small wireless sticked to it for the timecode, I mean. The problem is also the wind... I ave an H2 living toguether with a 302 mixer as a first aid recording rig. I take the H2 with me often (in civil life ) to record atmos and sounds. And a "wireless H4n with timecode" is something that, I think, can be useful, once a good windjammer is available. (I see Rycote has a new one for the H2 so maybe one for the H4n is on the way... I wonder how efficient and how transparent will it be... It needs to be tested asap!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebaume Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 ..but it already has an 1/8" input for this, why would you not want to use it? Vin, thanks for your reply. The wordage on the product lit led me to believe that the 1/8" connector was to override the two XLRs....pointless as it seemed. Tough decision which one to go with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Waelder Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 Imho, the problem is that you have no way of adding memory to this recorder. Secondly, the interchangeable mic design (which is great) does not give the possibility of plugging in a proper MS (or XY) stereo mic, even with the extension cable adapter - if i got that right from the brochure. I confess that I have limited familiarity with these handheld recorders. Vin, I was surprised by your assertion that the Nagra did not offer phantom power or the ability to connect stereo mikes so I asked Peter Weibel. He confirmed that you are correct. Some background: Nagra developed the Ares series of recorders for use by reporters. The BBC is by far the largest client for these devices so the feature set accommodates their specifications and preferences. The machine is really set up for interviews rather than for sound effects gathering. In its favor, Peter points out that the supplied stereo mike is really quite good and entirely suitable for effects and ambience recording. And, my price estimate was a bit high. The recorder sells for $895 complete with stereo mike. And the 2GB internal memory (accessible via USB port) is sufficient to the task. But he concedes that the Sony D50 offers just the right feature set for this assignment. While probably not a match to Nagra quality, it seems well made. I should mention that another Nagra handheld recorder, the Ares PII+, offers all the features one would want in a small machine. But it is quite expensive and a bit chunky for a handheld. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 <<Vin, I was surprised by your assertion that the Nagra did not offer phantom power or the ability to connect stereo mikes so I asked Peter Weibel. He confirmed that you are correct.>> Dave, I really did not see how the machine allows for a proper Ph48 through those mini jacks, which is what led me to surmise that phantom powering is not available. Also the extension mic seemed very much like a dynamic or electret... -vin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek H Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 Just used my H2 on a shoot last week as a backup recorder in my bag. Recording a 2ch mix with no timecode. It did a piss poor job. For most stuff i think it does ok but this particular shoot was very loud with lots of yelling, and smashing lots of metal and brick objects. Peaked out all over the place no matter what I calibrated the record level at. I think that the line level input on the H2 is too sensitive and that the recording level control is just a software setting not an analog control. A padded cable, apparently, is a must. I was feeding it with the aux out at line level from the alphamix mixer (-10dBm) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDigitaL Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Was the alphamix set at -10 to the recorder? I haven't tried my zoom on a 442 yet. I read that you can change the output of the mini XLRs to -10. I hope that works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebaume Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Has anyone tried the Tascam Dr-100? Mostly want one of these devices for in the bag, sending line level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek H Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Just used my H2 on a shoot last week as a backup recorder in my bag. Recording a 2ch mix with no timecode. It did a piss poor job. For most stuff i think it does ok but this particular shoot was very loud with lots of yelling, and smashing lots of metal and brick objects. Peaked out all over the place no matter what I calibrated the record level at. I think that the line level input on the H2 is too sensitive and that the recording level control is just a software setting not an analog control. A padded cable, apparently, is a must. I was feeding it with the aux out at line level from the alphamix mixer (-10dBm) Found the solution to the above (Zoom H2 line-in woes): Use the -50 mic setting (in ref to alphamix tape out) and go into the mic input. This puts the -20 tone at a nice spot even with the H2's "level" at the default setting. The downside: the mic input has a significantly diminished S/N ratio compared to the line. But for a transcription recording it should do fine. To use this as a true backup recorder I would still opt for the padded cable and go in Line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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