Alan A Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Hello everyone, Im a film student, and I am getting into production sound mixing. I have worked on tons of shoots (indy mostly) as a sound mixer and love it! But I don't yet have a sound cart, I am thinking of building one but don't know of any good places to get the materials except 80/20 but would like input on designs, A couple things I had in mind for the cart, I want to be able to tuck my Pelican 1620 case on the cart, (somewhere on the bottom) I just want a cart that's simple and sweet, a couple shelves and maybe a drawer. I also need it to be able to collapse, to fit in my little car ( or small enough to fit) Here is my setup. Aaton Cantar X2 (no mixer board yet but coming soon) 2 Sennheiser mkh shotguns 2 Sennheiser Lav mics 2 50' XLR 2 25' XLR 1 duplex 2 Rycote windscreen kits 1 Mini laptop ( for Tarkan and Majax) 2 Bose noise canceling headphones Its a pretty small setup at the moment, but I'm just getting started so I'm going to be improving much more as I go along. But if anyone has any tips about building a good rig I would love the input. Thanks all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 You will most probably have to build something if you are not able to find a used cart from someone else. As you probably know, there is a shortage of available new carts from any manufacturer because so many sound mixers build their own. The PSC cart is available, new and used (if you can find one) and various versions of soundcarts built on Magliner handtruck-type chassis. One cart which is generally overlooked although it has been around for awhile, Don Coufal just reminded me of this one, could be a good starting point to build something. Check it out at Marty Atias' site: http://atscomms.com/Sales/Products/Multicart/index.html and also at this site: http://www.handtrucksrus.com/crashdetail.aspx?id=458&cx=rock Regards, Jeff Wexler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan A Posted March 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 I actually came upon a website that was selling those hand truck sound carts, pre assembled as sound carts, for about 350-400$, I was thinking about getting one of those, but then I thought would there be room for addons on that? Mostly because I know that I'm going to get it, then instantly think of something else to add to it. Plus building something my self is much more gratifying, but any ideas on a cost difference? I mean for a bare bones cart, couple shelves, wheels, and maybe a drawer. big enough on the bottom to fit that 1620 pelican and room for addons later, small ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Building a cart is fun... All accessories for Magliners are universal, so will work on any copy. These copies are available on line. I built a bottom shelf out of 3/4 plywood, nice for screwing down. The top shelf I bought from Filmtools or Backstage or Studio Depot (all good sources for bits), along with the necessary nose adapter. Very simple and easy to load and unload. If you buy the Jr. Cart, it'll fit in small places and will give you plenty of working space. You can bolt a rack drawer to the bottom of the shelf. Over the years, it has grown, and is no longer collapsible, but it is still the same cart and has served me well for years. My advise is always to "buy once" and try to buy something that has multiple uses. This can become your follow cart when you expand. Good luck and feel free to contact me for advise or help on your build. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Hey Alan A, one of the disadvantages of starting out as a mixer is not getting to work around with other mixers and see how they do things and their work styles and packages. This isn't a answer to your question, but I would consider working as a boom op some as you move up through the ranks and stages of sound work. That way you are not self taught but mentored by many and you can pick and choose from them all. Just a thought. Many top mixers never swung a pole in their life, and some of the top boom ops turned into average mixers. Everyone has a different path. Good luck. What Film School did you go to? CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Jeff--what's the URL for your "photos of carts" gallery--zillions of ideas there. Philip Perkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan A Posted March 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Hey Alan A, one of the disadvantages of starting out as a mixer is not getting to work around with other mixers and see how they do things and their work styles and packages. This isn't a answer to your question, but I would consider working as a boom op some as you move up through the ranks and stages of sound work. That way you are not self taught but mentored by many and you can pick and choose from them all. Just a thought. Many top mixers never swung a pole in their life, and some of the top boom ops turned into average mixers. Everyone has a different path. Good luck. What Film School did you go to? CrewC Fortunately for me, I got to spend some time on the set of My Boys with the production sound mixer, not alot of time but I did learn more then I had already known, and I want to do some boom oping for big productions I think it would be a great way to network, and learn. I have done some boom oping before on lower end shoots then moved to mixing because that's what I like more, (I know how it is to have a crappy boom op, so in a way working as a mixer with crappy boom op's makes me a better boom op) but I would love to just watch a mixer on a big production, I kind of know how it goes but there are the little things that I still need/want to know. tips and tricks kind of thing I an going to Columbia College Hollywood, small film school and no production sound program. But that's what I want to do, don't know why I love it so much, but I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Jeff--what's the URL for your "photos of carts" gallery--zillions of ideas there. Philip Perkins Try this: Gallery of Carts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 But that's what I want to do, don't know why I love it so much, but I do. Then welcome here, fellow-sufferer. You've just stated one of the unifying traits of all sound people! Philip Perkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tourtelot Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Phillip- I thought you wrote "surfer." I was saying to myself, I don't surf, so all soundmen don't surf. Dude! D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 By all respects Alan A, welcome to the club. Most here seem to love what we do. BTW, I also went to film school. Way last century when film was all there was. I have since worked at every level of the sound game. I started as a mixer on the bottom of the work scale when I 1st got out. I then went to booming to get better jobs with better sound mixers on real films and commercials. I got much better at the craft by doing so for sure. Good enough to move to the top level of big time movie making by moving down to the 3rd man position where I learned a PHD worth of knowledge from the best out there. Then I boomed at the top after that, moving to mixing with much more to offer for doing it that way. This was my road and I offer it up only as food for thought, not advise. We all have our own journeys to take. When I graduated I loved film making and I still do. I was going to be the worlds greatest editor and make Walter Murch want to be me. So much for what I thought I knew then. Good luck. Hope you post a 'Who I am today' some day soon, I bet it's interesting. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Phillip- I thought you wrote "surfer." I was saying to myself, I don't surf, so all soundmen don't surf. Dude! D. D, your misread has given me a idea. It's Saint Paddys Day and I want a beer and maybe a little of the green. Who knows what I will read from this point foreword. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergio Sanmiguel Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 ... Check it out at Marty Atias' site: http://atscomms.com/Sales/Products/Multicart/index.html and also at this site: http://www.handtrucksrus.com/crashdetail.aspx?id=458&cx=rock Regards, Jeff Wexler I use a Rock&Roller. I load my sound rack on top and modified it to hold boom poles and antenna mast... Heres a low res pic of it: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graham Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 i use the multicart. Its sometimes called a rock n roller. The model to get is the r12 which has a wider, sturdier front with larger wheels. http://www.multicart.com/products.php I never got the bottom shelf, but i did buy a top shelf. Its collapsable and durable. However, there is definitely some looseness as the handle bars dont have a rigid locking system and you will notice some "play". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan A Posted March 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 Nice pic Scott, only Alan would be missing the six UCR411a Lectros, a Lectro SRA, 8x Lectros MM400c's, SD788t w/DVD-RAM, Marshall dual monitor, Lectro IFB transmitter & associated receivers, Comtek Base station & associated receivers, Remote audio BDS, Optima Battery, PSC Powermax, Video Balun System & Cantarem... Puff!! Not exactly his "modest" setup right? BTW Alan why the Bose Noise Canceling Headphones?!?! hah ya thats a lot of stuff I don't have. yet, but are the noise canceling head phones no good? they seam to work pretty good on a noisy set, so I can hear only what's coming through the cantar, not the outside noise. But Im interested to know what's good and what's not. And to Old School, Thanks for the info, Ill have to try to get into some boom op work. I dont know too much about that high profile productions, but do you need a good resume to get onto big productions? Any info will help. And to Jeff, thanks for the pic gallery, It will help a ton when building my rig. Im also looking for a mixer, but don't have a hugh budget (being a college student, and buying a Aaton cantar, but I love it so worth every penny.) so any mixer suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergio Sanmiguel Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 Wasn't talking about all the gear just the cart and maybe the SKB case. Sorry Scott, I missed the point... I Use a SKB rack as well. And your Filmtools cart is quite nice too. Alan, The problem with the noise canceling HP is that you DO want to hear what's out there, like AC's, fans, generators, etc... A sound mixer friend of mine tried them once and hated them. Theres a topic about that Noise Canceling HP's here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 A rack case is a good way to go. It's what I use. But even a small case is hard to fit in a small car, especially if you have some upright cart on which to mount it. A folding Magliner or rock n roller with a shelf is a GREAT starting point. And follow some old threads regarding mixers. While Scott seems to have an endless supply of funds for new gear, my suggestion would be to start out with a Mackie. I believe that the noise canceling headphones use some sort of phasing process to "eliminate" outside noise. So perhaps that means you are not really hearing the actual sound coming off the Cantar, but a somewhat processed version that might be coloring your sound. Sergio's point of wanting to hear what's around you is also valid. You can look at some old headphone threads here, but I expect you will find that you are probably the only one using noise canceling headphones to monitor your mix. The general favorite is the Sony MDR7506 - I use the Beyerdynamic DT250, which I find similar in sound and more comfortable (although recently learned the ear pads are interchangeable - thanks to JWsound!) Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan A Posted March 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 Thanks for all the tips guys, About the noise canceling HP, it makes more sense now that I think about it, Ill have to go pick up some good ones. And I was thinking to myself, would it be better for me to buy someones used sound cart, rather than build my own when I know not too much about it? Then later on when Im doing more build my own? And if so, is anyone selling any used carts they are not using anymore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Lacheur Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 I see Location Sound has some used carts for sale, but none of them look like they would work with a SKB style case without modifications. I'm using the SKB cases as well, but down to finding and picking up the cart itself. Rock N Roller seems like it's a good option, although at the end of the day, i'm not too fond of breaking down the rig to fit in the back of the car. Graham & Sergio; How much gear are you putting on that top shelf? Would you say it's durable enough to support a fully loaded 12U SKB case? Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Waelder Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 Now, I recognize that Alan asked for advice on simple carts that might hold his Cantar and a few microphones. But so many others have been recommending rack cases or extensively modified Magliners that I feel I can make a brief plug for the Chinhda cart. Go to: http://www.productionrecording.com/Tools/ChinhdaCartV3.html If nothing else, looking over the ingenious ways Chinhda addressed the challenge can stimulate your own thinking. David Waelder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Waelder Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 I'm certainly impressed with the craftsmanship that goes into these carts but the cost is prohibitive. I understand that there is a tremendous amount of time that goes into these carts and they would most likely be a lifetime purchase, but still the price! Yes, they are expensive. I never expected that Alan would buy one now, at the beginning of his career. But, as I said, so many others have suggested options that are also expensive that I felt justified in bringing it to his attention. Costs nothing to look and he may pick up some ideas. With the economy in the doldrums, sales have trailed off now. Last year, however we sold five or six carts, I think. Not bad considering the cost and the fact that the economy was only slightly better then. The people who have them, love them and don't regret the purchase for a minute. Many on this group have rebuilt carts three or four or more times often at costs of $2000 or more with each iteration. I consider, for example, how much money I've invested in espresso machines over the years before settling on the Pavoni. And, even at these high prices, a Chinhda cart is no more expensive than other products with equivalent levels of hand craftsmanship. Handmade bicycles easily cost the same kind of money. You should stop by the shop and we'll show you why you really do want those disc brakes. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergio Sanmiguel Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 How much gear are you putting on that top shelf? Would you say it's durable enough to support a fully loaded 12U SKB case? Ron A camera guy I used to work with had his Rock n Roller for over 5 years (but never got the shelf), he loaded a pelican rifle case at the bottom with at least three C stands and a baby c-stand, on top of that four 1650 pelican cases loaded with an Arri light kit, KinoFlo Divas Kit, Sony Video monitor, dimmers & stingers, v-mount batteries & chargers, arri & avenger light stands, schatler tripod, duvatine & gels, sand bags,etc... It never let us down. Thats why I decided to get one for myself, thinking that it could make a nice follow cart in the future when I can afford a Chinhda cart... The shelf is made of plywood with steel beams bolted underneath. so I'd say it can hold well over 100 pounds, the problem is that the mounting holes on the handle bar might be too high for a twelve unit rack so you'd probably need to drill new holes. I use a six unit SKB rack, or just put my Sound bag on top depending on the gig... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan A Posted March 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 Thanks for the link David, sadly its true, the 7500$ price tag is a bit much at the moment, but it will help me with some ideas for my own, and you never can tell the future. But I think I am going to go with the Multicart with the top shelf, I have seen a couple pictures of mixers sound carts made out of those and they are pretty much exactly what I need/want, They can fold down, I can put drawers on it, I can add on to it. Can hold my 1620 case on the bottom. And room for more goodies! over all I feel its a great starting point for me at least. Thanks for all the great info guys! It is much appreciated! See you all on set! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Graff Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 A camera guy I used to work with had his Rock n Roller for over 5 years (but never got the shelf), he loaded a pelican rifle case at the bottom with at least three C stands and a baby c-stand, on top of that four 1650 pelican cases loaded with an Arri light kit, KinoFlo Divas Kit, Sony Video monitor, dimmers & stingers, v-mount batteries & chargers, arri & avenger light stands, schatler tripod, duvatine & gels, sand bags,etc... It never let us down. Thats why I decided to get one for myself, thinking that it could make a nice follow cart in the future when I can afford a Chinhda cart... The shelf is made of plywood with steel beams bolted underneath. so I'd say it can hold well over 100 pounds, the problem is that the mounting holes on the handle bar might be too high for a twelve unit rack so you'd probably need to drill new holes. I use a six unit SKB rack, or just put my Sound bag on top depending on the gig... The rock-n-roller R12 will fit a 12 space SKB rack under the top shelf, while the magliner will only fit 10 space. Actually, it will fit two racks side by side when extended. That is what I use for a follow cart. Magliner is not wide enough for two racks. R12 is best with all four tires pneumatic, but annoyingly, it has no brake, so I carry a door wedge. They fold up and collapse nicely and are cheap. Not as burly or adaptable as magliner. Both have their place, imo. PG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graham Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 This is an early version of what i have now. Cheapo rack that is approximately 19" high. On the side you cant see is a PSC powerstation. I strap the rack to the cart and it gets rid of the "wiggle" room and feels sturdier. i use http://www.trewaudio.com/store/product.php?productid=836&cat=91&page=1 and strap both halves to the cart for boom holders. Its definitely not a looker as far as carts go, but it is serviceable. With the r12 you can go across dirt and even sand(although not a fun experience) relatively easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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