VASI Posted March 1, 2018 Report Share Posted March 1, 2018 Today, I have experienced a nightmare in a cooking show. Wireless & Induction Kitchen Some sort info's: Wireless was Sennheiser G3 (626 MHz - 688 MHz) and G2 (780 MHz - 822 MHz). Lavaliers was DPA 4061. I know, 780 MHz - 822 MHz isn't very good here; but usable. The kitchen was without any extra furniture, so the whole system (below glass surface) was expsosed (not visible to camera of course). When the chef was turned on the kitchen for cooking; wireless went crazy, both of them. The sound was something like huge noise gate, plus extreme denoise, plus extreme compression. Like RF swallow into black hole (use your imagination). I did everything from my side; changing frequencies, changing lavaliers, changing everything with all combinations. Same story: No bueno. Booming was not possible; yes you thinked correctly, extremely wide shoot (master camera) plus exterior (45 meters away was passing a train every 4 minutes). So everyone went crazy because of "sound problem", the kitchen nightmare; not the train nightmare. I have asked a simple question, if we had that kitchen from previous season. Guess, the answer was "no". And the story goes crazy. Next time, cooking show, I will ask what type of kitchen will be. After "where", "when" (and why in my inner thoughts). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungo Posted March 2, 2018 Report Share Posted March 2, 2018 That induction inducts the mic itself and the cable between lav and transmitter, I guess, so changing frequencys won't help unfortunately. I even had that once with a wired(!) MK41 (!). Recently talked to a Sennheiser developer about this issue. It was new to him that this is a big problem for us. For oncoming products they will think about testing induction noise (within the other tests a new product runs through before thrown onto the market). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilari Sivil Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 I wonder if the Neutrik EMC-connectors could be of any help? Seems pretty problematic in any case, especially since induction stoves are pretty nice to use so people may be reluctant to give them up. Another thing to check up on for future gigs, I guess... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VASI Posted March 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 Hi Ilari, I tried a starquad cable from receiver to recorder; still no bueno. The problem was from transmission side (tx and lavalier). I wonder if I had a digital wireless, things was better; but I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkautzsch Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 On 4.3.2018 at 12:31 PM, Ilari Sivil said: I wonder if the Neutrik EMC-connectors could be of any help? With wired boom mics, maybe. On 4.3.2018 at 1:53 PM, VAS said: The problem was from transmission side (tx and lavalier). I wonder if I had a digital wireless, things was better; but I don't know. When talent is close to a source of interference, the main culprit usually is the unbalanced connection between mic head and transmitter. Therefore, digital wireless would only transmit the compromised audio signal more faithfully. I doubt the induction field was strong enough to hit your receivers, you must have been a few meters away if it was an ultra-wide shot. Did you do a scan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike G Posted March 10, 2018 Report Share Posted March 10, 2018 The same happened to me too a couple of weeks ago, when using Sennheiser G3s and MKE-2s in a cooking show. I had several different induction ovens in the set/shoot. So the interference on the G3s was from non to extrem noise gate. I had a room tone boom too, so in post we fixed the gated sound in the mix. Anyway, I found this plausible explanation by Larry: So if you guys have a chance, use other transmitters than G2 - G3, when shooting with induction. Any experience with other brands, besides Sennheiser? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpb2 Posted March 12, 2018 Report Share Posted March 12, 2018 what do you think about wrapping the stove in foil and grounding it in a pinch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryF Posted March 12, 2018 Report Share Posted March 12, 2018 Try wrapping your hand tightly around the lavaliere mic and see if it at least works like a lavaliere wrapped up in a hand. This will block possible supersonics (24 kHz). You should get really muffled sound. You can also tap the cable and see if you get the usual cable noise. This doesn't solve the problem but at least it would show that supersonic noise through the air is the problem. Best Regards, Larry Fisher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewest Posted March 13, 2018 Report Share Posted March 13, 2018 Thanks for that observation Larry. There is a similar problem with large HMI lamps on-set that produce a high level noise at 19kHz My ears cannot hear that!!! Regards mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Davies Amps CAS Posted March 13, 2018 Report Share Posted March 13, 2018 6 hours ago, mikewest said: Thanks for that observation Larry. There is a similar problem with large HMI lamps on-set that produce a high level noise at 19kHz My ears cannot hear that!!! Regards mike That's interesting Mike, the HMI high level noise on the larger lamps used in the Uk is always14kHz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 On 3/13/2018 at 10:19 PM, Malcolm Davies Amps CAS said: That's interesting Mike, the HMI high level noise on the larger lamps used in the Uk is always14kHz Strange because both countries are 50khz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryF Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 1 hour ago, IronFilm said: Strange because both countries are 50khz 50 Hz not 50 kHz (50,000 Hz). Best Regards, Larry Fisher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRYAN DAY Posted March 29, 2018 Report Share Posted March 29, 2018 The same happened to me too a couple of weeks ago, when using Sennheiser G3s and MKE-2s in a cooking show. I had several different induction ovens in the set/shoot. So the interference on the G3s was from non to extrem noise gate. I had a room tone boom too, so in post we fixed the gated sound in the mix. Anyway, I found this plausible explanation by Larry: So if you guys have a chance, use other transmitters than G2 - G3, when shooting with induction. Any experience with other brands, besides Sennheiser? Lectrosonics SSM cos 11 and / DPA mini no problem same situation Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryF Posted March 29, 2018 Report Share Posted March 29, 2018 3 hours ago, BRYAN DAY said: Lectrosonics SSM cos 11 and / DPA mini no problem same situation Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk The reason (probably) the Lectro was not affected is that the Lectro does not have multiple sections of pre-emphasis (treble boost) as does Sennheiser. It is exactly the reason some transmitters have problems with the key test; the large boost of supersonic frequencies. Also, the Lectros do a fair amount of supersonic roll off very early in the mic gain stage. This makes me strongly believe the induction cook top was a supersonic audio problem and not an RF problem. Thanks for the update. Best Regards, Larry Fisher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VASI Posted March 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2018 Thank you guys! I learned a lot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berniebeaudry Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 Arc welding can have an effect on wireless as well. I've never had an issue with Lectro gear around it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike G Posted April 2, 2018 Report Share Posted April 2, 2018 On 29.3.2018 at 5:47 PM, BRYAN DAY said: Lectrosonics SSM cos 11 and / DPA mini no problem same situation Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Thanks Bryan for the update on the topic! On 29.3.2018 at 9:50 PM, LarryF said: The reason (probably) the Lectro was not affected is that the Lectro does not have multiple sections of pre-emphasis (treble boost) as does Sennheiser. It is exactly the reason some transmitters have problems with the key test; the large boost of supersonic frequencies. Also, the Lectros do a fair amount of supersonic roll off very early in the mic gain stage. This makes me strongly believe the induction cook top was a supersonic audio problem and not an RF problem. Thanks for the update. Best Regards, Larry Fisher Larry, I think you're 100% right. Thanks for sorting that out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalton Patterson Posted April 6, 2018 Report Share Posted April 6, 2018 Very informative read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbuerjes Posted April 8, 2018 Report Share Posted April 8, 2018 I experienced something similar, but with the 5000 series / Sennheiser - and it was not with induction ovens but with the ultrasonic connection of hairpieces (extensions) at the hairdressers. The radio link could not be used at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel Posted April 8, 2018 Report Share Posted April 8, 2018 On 3/30/2018 at 3:13 PM, berniebeaudry said: Arc welding can have an effect on wireless as well. I've never had an issue with Lectro gear around it. I've had problems when recording surgical operations when they use a Electrocauter for cauterisation. I think it's creating a mini arc which results in a 'splat' on the channels of some radio mic (and a smell of burning flesh). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Slater Posted April 12, 2018 Report Share Posted April 12, 2018 On 09/04/2018 at 5:19 AM, daniel said: I've had problems when recording surgical operations when they use a Electrocauter for cauterisation. I think it's creating a mini arc which results in a 'splat' on the channels of some radio mic (and a smell of burning flesh). I have done a lot of recording in surgery over the last few years, my set up with cos-11 into lectro has never had problems from any high frequency medical equipment, including the cauterising systems. The smell does put me off meat for a while ( usually only lunch.... ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel Posted April 12, 2018 Report Share Posted April 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Pat Slater said: I have done a lot of recording in surgery over the last few years, my set up with cos-11 into lectro has never had problems from any high frequency medical equipment, including the cauterising systems. The smell does put me off meat for a while ( usually only lunch.... ) Good to know. IIRC, my mid range sennheiser RMs were sensitive to the cauterising, the cheap Sony UWPs (i had as back up) worked fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimborano Posted February 8, 2019 Report Share Posted February 8, 2019 Thank you very much for sharing your experiences! I made a test with Audio Limited A10 and dpa 4060, and had no problems. Some guys making a tv cooking show asked me some advice, since they were going through problems with their radio mics and induction stove. They use Sony UTX-URX system, but the say the lav wire is stripped in some points. When I made my test, their wireless system was not available, so I could not test the Sony system next to the Audio Limited one, and I don't know if the problem could be the damaged wire or the wireless system itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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