Omar Milano Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 Hi everyone, Have any of you ever been in a situation when you had to mic someone riding a motorcycle (a Harley actually)? I have a gig coming up, and talent will be riding AND talking (not much I hope!). Between hog noise, wind, and no helmet, I'm not sure if a well protected COS-11 as a body mic will do the trick. I'm at a loss for ideas. Your tips will be greatly appreciated. Cheers, OM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergio Sanmiguel Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 I worked on a show with louder bikes than Harley's... Big Dog Motorcycles. The show: "American Thunder" on the "Speed Channel". The host was wearing a head-worn mic but I replaced the built in mic with a countryman B3 shielded with a remote audio microcat... Worked great as we were following on a Convertible Chevy Camaro ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 There will be a lot of wind for sure, same with the Hog, but if he is talking he will be loud just to hear himself. That will help you. The COS-11 will need to be open, but well protected. Wardrobe will be a big help or killer. Have that conversation early and explain your needs. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 +1 for the microcat. Try to get them to let you have it on the outside of the leathers. Leather bike gear is a very effective sound barrier. Mr. C is right, the guy will have to holler anyhow to even hear himself over the bike. Philip Perkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael P Clark Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 When I mic'ed up a rider(BMW) I used a microcat, poked out of a pocket in the jacket. Most of the mic was protected by the jacket from wind. However higher speeds did not bode well. I have my reservations on the Microcat on it's own exposed to the wind. Not the end all answer. And I ultimately added pieces of an old High Wind cover for a zepplin under the microcat. It helped quite a bit. Thankfully our rider didn't find it too safe to drive faster and direct dialog towards a camera. So that worked alright. Still not perfect. As a backup, our rider had a communications system built into his helmet that I recorded as a backup. They ended up using the Comm system audio for the show. Being that you're on a Harley I would doubt he'll be wearing a comm system. But it turned out quite well. Listening to both tracks, the lav audio was still pretty buried even under a BMW. I'd be worried about a Harley. Closer to the mouth will be the best placement. Don't go to the helmet as direct wind will wreak havoc, obviously. On tight shots, (camera was on the Bike), I built a make shift zepplin rig for a lav, and mounted it on the outside of the jacket. Best sound out of all the options, but limited of course to the frame of the camera. No wind, however. Thankfully the shots were for different scenes and never married next to each other. If I could do it again, I would build a smaller cage that was able to live outside of a jacket, and remain hidden, at least to the camera. And don't count on a jacket for a Harley rider.....so I'd be asking now what wardrobe is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 Most of the noise you'll contend with will be the wind. The majority of the FANTASTIC and WONDERFUL and JOYOUS sound of even a loud Harley, like mine, spills from the pipes. The body of the rider will shield the mike from most of that sound and the engine sound, leaving you to contend with the wind. Perhaps you might get lucky, and have a bike with a windshield!! That will help a lot. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omar Milano Posted March 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Thank you kindly for all your tips. This is going to be challenging to say the least. I'm not sure what the wardrobe will be, but I expect that it won't be much. Even if we start shooting late in the year. I've been doing some test runs with my buddy Dave and his Hog, alternately using a COS-11 and a Countryman B6 under a t-shirt with Rycote undercovers. This seemed to work ok, as long as he stayed under 25 miles. All of you are right. Wind is a killer and pipe spills can not be attenuated, but we see what is going on in the picture. He does have a shield, but it didn't help much at faster speeds. I know the bike for the shoot will NOT have one, so that's that. I really do not see the need to go fast while he is delivering his lines, so I will address that issue soon. Same with wardrobe. Thanks again guys! OM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Omar, Try the Overcovers in place of the Undercovers -- still positioned in the same place. I've had such good success with the Overcovers that I don't use the Undercovers very often. The fur of the Overcovers is soft enough that clothing noise isn't any worse in most cases, and the Overcovers are much better wind-wise. Good luck. John B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Sorry...I couldn't resist posting a picture of my baby! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Wow. Nice looking ride. Very classic Robert. Ride safe. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Sorry...I couldn't resist posting a picture of my baby! Nice cart. Where's the antenna mast? Oh, sorry. Philip Perkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmgoodin Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Sorry...I couldn't resist posting a picture of my baby! I got that beat... Wanna Race? ---Courtney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 I got that beat... Wanna Race? ---Courtney WTF is that Courtney? Funny. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Holy crap! What is that thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmgoodin Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Holy crap! What is that thing? I Just pimped my ride with a Dodge Viper 10 cylender engine. Here's another view. ----Courtney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Holy moley! I think even Batman would be envious of that bike. Now, how do you mike the talent on that thing? --Marc W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omar Milano Posted March 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 You would need to hermetically seal him to attenuate that monster!! Haha... By the way, nice "Baby", Robert! OM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergio Sanmiguel Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 I Just pimped my ride with a Dodge Viper 10 cylender engine. Here's another view. ----Courtney DANG! Courtney, I hope you're using some good'ol earplugs while riding that thing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 Courtney, I see that BWF Widget has paid off for you far beyond what any of us would have imagined. John B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Trew Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 I got that beat... Wanna Race? ---Courtney Yep, I'll race. First one from Nashville to Vegas on two wheels wins, and I'll be riding the 1800 miles on a 1986 BMW. Michael, I'm wondering about your experience with the MicroCat, specifically what mic you were using. The MicroCat works best with the Sanken COS-11 with the the metal windscreen on the mic. Wind metal windscreen is important because it helps position the MicroCat and keeps it secure and creates a dead air space between the mic and the MicroCat. When used with the COS-11 and the metal windscreen, I don't know of a better solution for motorcycle dialog than the MicroCat. Glen Trew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmgoodin Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 I can't take that bet because mine has 4 wheels. Even if you pop a wheelie you are still on 2 tires. That's the Dodge Tomahawk. One problem with it is that it only runs for about 45 seconds before it overheats and you have to let it cool down for about half an hour. No radiator. And those 2 things that look like headlights are actually the intake manifolds. The headlights are LEDs and are in that vertical strip between the front wheels. Top speed is estimated to be 350mph. No one has been crazy enough to try to get it up to that speed. It has a 2 speed transmission, fast and call the coroner. I was recording the sound of it for Dodge. We ran it inside 2 of the largest sound stages at Raleigh Manhattan beach. With only 12 degrees of steering we couldn't turn it around inside the sound stage. Had to push it back to the starting point for each run. I wish I had the dough to buy one. There was only one when this picture was shot. It had just come from a demo for Jay Leno. They eventually made 10 replicas at about $550,000 each. Yeah ..it makes a heck of a racket.... -----Courtney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonobo Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 try this combination for cos-11.. http://www.sanken-mic.com/en/product/product_accessories.cfm/5.1005900 the 'pin-11' and the 'wsl-11' with - http://www.rycote.com/products/personal_mics/furries/ over the top....feed the cos through the little label on the rycote first, prevents you losing it when/if it blows off. Its bulky, but the pin 11 keeps the cos away from clothing, and is unlikely to fall off, the extra large mesh windjammer keeps the rycote well away from the mic and gives a bigger airgap. There's the option of using the cos 11 vampire clip thats now available..I have cut one down to fit the large mesh screen and it works pretty well and is slightly more streamline that the pin 11. As we all know its a compromise from the off. Sometimes the clothing can act like a wind baffle, sometimes like a wind tunnel. This system is bulky and will therefore only suit certain situations where it can still be hidden....I sometimes use a cos on a rycote sticky, with the normal size mesh on, a bit of dbl sided over the lower portion of the mic to keep it in place on the sticky, then the furry overcover on top of that. It needs some pressure around the rim of the sticky to seat it properly, and then I use dbl sided again to attach a tiny safety pin on the sticky which i attach to the clothing, then stick the whole thing down over the top of it. Your beast bike reminds me of the day when I was over filming with a certain car nut chat show host, and as we were leaving he wheeled this monster jet car off a low loader - it was absolutely massive and looked amazing, yet insane. As was his car collection. He had a V8 bike and a car with a tank engine in amongst others. Nice chap though....except when he walked off as I was trying to mic him up. :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael P Clark Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 Yep, I'll race. First one from Nashville to Vegas on two wheels wins, and I'll be riding the 1800 miles on a 1986 BMW. Michael, I'm wondering about your experience with the MicroCat, specifically what mic you were using. The MicroCat works best with the Sanken COS-11 with the the metal windscreen on the mic. Wind metal windscreen is important because it helps position the MicroCat and keeps it secure and creates a dead air space between the mic and the MicroCat. When used with the COS-11 and the metal windscreen, I don't know of a better solution for motorcycle dialog than the MicroCat. Glen Trew Oh how did I know my post would grab your attention Glen? Like I said, I made it happen with good sound and no wind. No disrespect to your MicroCat. It works, but everything has limitations, and I, for some reason have the uncanny ability to find them. I did many, many, many tests with placement and varying speeds of the motorcycle. I had to use the B6's, using the Cos-11 windscreens. I was using the TRX900AA and that was when the COS-11 didn't work with them. The MicroCat didn't work with the high wind windscreens, the screen is too big. There was no wind at lower speeds, and beyond that, there is no stopping it. It's getting through. 3rd gear was as fast as he could go before the wind buffeted the mic too much. Stuffing a very small amount of High Wind Cover from an old Rycote into the windscreen and positioning the B6 so there was a bit of air in there. I poked the mic out of a pocket as much as possible with out it sounding too muffled. The worst wind noise I received was placing the mic exposed to the wind on the outside of the jacket(with only the Mic and the MicroCat). Which was actually a good thing. I didn't want to expose the mic and be seen by the world. I am not sure how people get the wind knocked down exposed like that. And I would like to hear others techniques to making that happen. The cage I built was phenomenal but could only be used on tight shots where the camera was on the bike. In no way was I trying to say that the MicroCat was not a good choice. Just be careful with it and position it well, and test, test, test. When people said that was all that was needed, I needed to state that my experience with it did not make it that simple. Just place the mic and MicroCat combo in front of a box fan and tell me what you get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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