yizhye20 Posted July 16, 2018 Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 Hello all, Trying to find out which is the better recorder for me. I know both of them are really beautiful recorders (performance, price). The only issue would be which one fits me well. sx-r4+ is a simple recorder. 4 channel input and really good mic amp (I don't get a chance to hear the sample yet) Cantar mini is a way much more complicated recorder. a lot more function. The only issue is that seems it needs a recording cart to hold it. I mainly use the 5U right now. Waiting for my DPA 4017B for interior location sound. I know for sure any one of them will sound way better than my F8. Let me know what do you think. It would be soo nice to hear any samples from any of those two recorders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted July 16, 2018 Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 I don't think the Cantar mini needs a cart unless you want to use a cart. Lots of people "bag" the full sized Cantar, and the mini is much smaller than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGraham045 Posted July 16, 2018 Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 Why don’t you rent each? And test drive them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted July 16, 2018 Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 What I find annoying with the Mini is that it doesn’t have enough analog or digital inputs to use all 10 inputs with one or the other. So you can’t go fully analog or fully digital. If you have ten sources to record you‘ll always need to mix and match. And ten inputs is only two more than I have now with my 788T, so there‘s only two more on the Mini. The Cantar does have great software options though and that screen is awesome. And the faders are built right in so you won’t need to buy a panel one day. On the Sonosax you can expand that to 12 mic inputs (with an add-on) or go fully digital, that’s great. But there‘s no fader panel yet and the software options are less exciting (if you ever need them all is another question). Soundwise both won’t have any issues I‘m sure. By the way, you could consider getting a 788T instead. These are coming way down in their used prices and still offer 8 mic/line inputs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trey LaCroix Posted July 16, 2018 Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 One of the usual suspects actually just gave me an R4+ to review last week. Although my cantar mini experience is very minimal, I do want to say that the R4+ is the best sounding machine I have ever heard. The preamps are very detailed and extremely quiet. Noticeably (in a quiet room) better than my 633’s, which I actually find quite nice. It is very configurable and customizable. However, one of the biggest issues I see with it is the lack of outputs. It has one line out and a multi pin AES output. While I think it’s awesome to have aes outputs, many things we use don’t have digital inputs. For the jobs I do, I need to be able to easily send to camera, comtek, sometimes a boom ifb and route different things on them. I think they make a cable ($) for a special 7 pin xlr connector you can have installed on the side ($$$) to get direct analog outs, but that’s a lot to go through for such a basic thing. Maybe others have figured out better and easier ways to do this or I’m missing something. I’d love to be wrong. The other thing that may be an issue is that there are only 6 pots on the recorder. If you are used to a Sound Devices mixer with a trim knob and a fader knob and wish to continue working that way you would need the add on knob extension (more $$$). But.... IT SOUNDS F**KING GREAT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramallo Posted July 16, 2018 Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 Dumb test, Sound Devices 722, Aeta 4Minx, Sonosax SX-R4+ and Zaxcom Maxx, with a pair of matched DPA4011, in the same place but unfortunately not at same time. https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1xuJf1Mb6ykyCpX-wXrcVcXfjjdO3YbGg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramallo Posted July 16, 2018 Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 3 hours ago, yizhye20 said: I mainly use the 5U right now. Waiting for my DPA 4017B for interior location sound. I know for sure any one of them will sound way better than my F8. Let me know what do you think. It would be soo nice to hear any samples from any of those two recorders DPA 4017B for interior location sound?, what is the difference with the 5U? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
engaudio Posted July 16, 2018 Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 3 hours ago, Trey LaCroix said: However, one of the biggest issues I see with it is the lack of outputs. It has one line out and a multi pin AES output. While I think it’s awesome to have aes outputs, many things we use don’t have digital inputs. For the jobs I do, I need to be able to easily send to camera, comtek, sometimes a boom ifb and route different things on them. I think they make a cable ($) for a special 7 pin xlr connector you can have installed on the side ($$$) to get direct analog outs, but that’s a lot to go through for such a basic thing. Maybe others have figured out better and easier ways to do this or I’m missing something. I’d love to be wrong. You're very wrong.. On the recorder the optional 7XLR is for the sennheiser ambeo mic input The 5XLR is switchable: 2xAES/2xbalanced out/4xunbalanced out There's a ta3 (2 channel balanced) analogue out Plus a switchable in or out AES All this is covered on the Sonosax site. https://www.sonosax.ch/product/sx-r4p/ You have to think of the recorder as a matrix mixer as there's no such thing as a main L/R out, any input/track/mix/aux/etc.. can be assigned to an output. If you have any questions ask away, I've been using a Sonosax SXR4+ for the past year as my main recorder. Here's what it sounds like. int: mkh50 ext: sanken CS-1 & mkh50. Grant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted July 16, 2018 Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 8 hours ago, ramallo said: DPA 4017B for interior location sound?, what is the difference with the 5U? The 4017 has a much smoother off-axis response and in many ways sounds more like a supercardioid. Still it’s not the obvious mic for interiors, but it does sound really nice in most imteriors (abd exteriors, too). Plus with the C preamp it becomes really small. Just make sure it works fine with you chosen transmitter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramallo Posted July 16, 2018 Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Constantin said: The 4017 has a much smoother off-axis response and in many ways sounds more like a supercardioid. Still it’s not the obvious mic for interiors, but it does sound really nice in most imteriors (abd exteriors, too). Plus with the C preamp it becomes really small. Just make sure it works fine with you chosen transmitter I did some test years ago between both microphones and I found exactly the oposite, my feel is that the 5U have a gently off-axis, rather than the 4017 that is a bit more sharp. A: Schoeps CMIT, B: DPA 4017C 45 is 45º IMMO the best choice is the 4018C and even smaller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Immoral Mr Teas Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 Back to 'yizhye20's original post both (admittedly gorgeous) machines are seriously different (and as Constantin points out might yet not be the ideal for your current situation ...) You really need to find a dealer, rent if need be and assess on your own? Is there such a dealer (with these Euro products) in or in useful distance from Savannah Georgia? Jez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trey LaCroix Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 16 hours ago, engaudio said: You're very wrong.. On the recorder the optional 7XLR is for the sennheiser ambeo mic input The 5XLR is switchable: 2xAES/2xbalanced out/4xunbalanced out There's a ta3 (2 channel balanced) analogue out Plus a switchable in or out AES Thank you for correcting me. Between those options there are actually a lot of different options. The one I have has no optional connector so I ran out of outputs quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yizhye20 Posted July 17, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 21 hours ago, ramallo said: Dumb test, Sound Devices 722, Aeta 4Minx, Sonosax SX-R4+ and Zaxcom Maxx, with a pair of matched DPA4011, in the same place but unfortunately not at same time. https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1xuJf1Mb6ykyCpX-wXrcVcXfjjdO3YbGg thank you so much 20 hours ago, ramallo said: DPA 4017B for interior location sound?, what is the difference with the 5U? shorter to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jozzafunk Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 15 minutes ago, yizhye20 said: thank you so much Interesting test - fairly apparent differences even just on the laptop, but very difficult to be objective - the Sonosax sounds so 3D!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
engaudio Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 100% DPA 4017, Sonosax SXR4+ , cabled to FS7. (don't ask why cabled..) I was really impressed with the reach of the DPA in this location, thought I'd try it on interiors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 1 hour ago, engaudio said: 100% DPA 4017, Sonosax SXR4+ , cabled to FS7. (don't ask why cabled..) I was really impressed with the reach of the DPA in this location, thought I'd try it on interiors. 100% the DPA 4017? No lavs? Impressed then on the reach in a couple of those shots, very nice. What about the performances on the stage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismedr Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 11 hours ago, engaudio said: 100% DPA 4017, Sonosax SXR4+ , cabled to FS7. (don't ask why cabled..) I was really impressed with the reach of the DPA in this location, thought I'd try it on interiors. sounds good. but whoever did the color correction on this video should get a new pair of eyes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 10 hours ago, chrismedr said: sounds good. but whoever did the color correction on this video should get a new pair of eyes... IMO, that attempt to be trendy with the video effect was a REALLY bad choice. It drew my attention away from the performance and made it basically unwatchable for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yizhye20 Posted July 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 On 7/16/2018 at 12:40 AM, KGraham045 said: Why don’t you rent each? And test drive them? tried another day to find a place to rent it. Still don't get any info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 15 hours ago, chrismedr said: sounds good. but whoever did the color correction on this video should get a new pair of eyes... Looks like uncorrected log footage in large parts of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Tresch Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 10 hours ago, yizhye20 said: tried another day to find a place to rent it. Still don't get any info. Try to call Sonosax directly. They probably could help you out or give a hint who could lend you a test recorder. Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
engaudio Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 On 7/17/2018 at 5:58 PM, IronFilm said: 100% the DPA 4017? No lavs? Impressed then on the reach in a couple of those shots, very nice. What about the performances on the stage? Everything was the DPA 4017, no lavs. That's what impressed me too when using it, the 'reach' of the mic, even slightly off axis was fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexG Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 On 7/18/2018 at 12:24 AM, IronFilm said: Looks like uncorrected log footage in large parts of it. Definitely just this. DP probably shot in log like they always do, and passed it off to an inexperienced editor who didn't know what a LUT was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 8 hours ago, engaudio said: That's what impressed me too when using it, the 'reach' of the mic, even slightly off axis was fine. wow 8 hours ago, engaudio said: Everything was the DPA 4017, no lavs. Did they say no to lavs because of the budget? I can't remember the last shoot I did without lavs :-/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
engaudio Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 45 minutes ago, IronFilm said: wow Did they say no to lavs because of the budget? I can't remember the last shoot I did without lavs :-/ I could get everything on the boom, No need to use lavs and it saved time, We were at the final dress rehearsal grabbing people to talk too when possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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