Corrado Posted September 6, 2018 Report Share Posted September 6, 2018 Hello audio boys and girls ! Here I am with yet another call for help. For my next gig I'll have to record dialogues as well as live music. We have some pre recorded tracks to playback but a lot of times there will be semi-improvised performances . Of course having mic stands in plain sight is not an option and I'm going to rely on cos11 , 4061, a couple of 4080 and two Shure SM11 (dynamic lavs) . I also have a mkh 30 + 50 MS available and several 57s and 58s . There wll be 2 main "non-amplified" situations 1) Sousaphone , banjo, clarinet , snare and bass drum, violin 2) accordion , clarinet , acooustic guitar Do you have any tip on how to hide the capsules (I can't wrap my head around on how to keep the lav wire invisible on the clarinet, for instance) . Also for the first set up I m afraid that the sousaphone might be too prominent to use just the MS array and I think that the a close miking is in order to give some balance in the mix . Suggestion and real life experiences are very very welcome ! Thank you very much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borjam Posted September 6, 2018 Report Share Posted September 6, 2018 Will they use music stands and scores? Those will help. And even in jazz improvisations it's not unusual to have some scores around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonG Posted September 6, 2018 Report Share Posted September 6, 2018 If you lav everyone, get a line from playback, and set up your stereo mics to get the live sound, you should be able to get a reasonable mix. I’ve gotten very good results from just laving musicians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickreich Posted September 7, 2018 Report Share Posted September 7, 2018 Violin you can get a very decent pickup from a DPA mounted centre-forehead up under the hairline, Theatre-style (if the player has a reasonable amount of hair). Same with Accordion. Plant mics from overhead can often be usefully hidden in indoor sets (behind stage lighting fixtures works well on small 'jazz club' type stage sets). You can get a very useable (mono) drum kit sound from a DPA 4061 stuck to the top vertical face of the metal rim around the beater (drummer) side of the bass drum, which when added to an overhead or two hidden behind a (possibly fake) rafter beam, or if Set Dressing will co-coperate, a practical pendant light or two, will give you a good overall kit balance. Acoustic guitars, if you can arrange for the strap to be dark coloured and preferably with a 'busy' pattern on it, you could run a DPA lav down the inside of the strap on the guitar neck side of the payer to about 6" above where it attaches to the guitar, and back over the shoulder and in the collar to a transmitter pack. Clarinet is hard. Really, Borjam's suggestion of a Music stand (or some similar prop to hide a mic on) is your only viable approach. If they can't / won't give you the time and a bit of set dressing co-operation to do the live record properly, then their best options are either to 'pre-record in place' just before the shoot, with proper mics and stands, then remove them and immediately play back for camera, or alternatively for you to get the best guide recording of the on-camera performance you can and then they'll 'post-record' the music in a studio with the same band playing to that guide for 'finger-sync'. If it's part playback and part live, make really sure your playback system and recorder share the same wordclock. Any drift at all can be much more of a pain to edit around with music than with Dialog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewest Posted September 8, 2018 Report Share Posted September 8, 2018 Seems silly that something music driven cannot allow visible mikes. 1- Do they want a good music recording? 2- Can it be recorded and done to playback? Questions need to be asked! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Feeley Posted September 8, 2018 Report Share Posted September 8, 2018 16 hours ago, mikewest said: Seems silly that something music driven cannot allow visible mikes. Looking at the instrumentation, maybe it's a period piece. Corrado, any more details? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted September 9, 2018 Report Share Posted September 9, 2018 On 9/6/2018 at 5:46 PM, nickreich said: Violin you can get a very decent pickup from a DPA mounted centre-forehead up under the hairline, Theatre-style (if the player has a reasonable amount of hair). Same with Accordion. Plant mics from overhead can often be usefully hidden in indoor sets (behind stage lighting fixtures works well on small 'jazz club' type stage sets). You can get a very useable (mono) drum kit sound from a DPA 4061 stuck to the top vertical face of the metal rim around the beater (drummer) side of the bass drum, which when added to an overhead or two hidden behind a (possibly fake) rafter beam, or if Set Dressing will co-coperate, a practical pendant light or two, will give you a good overall kit balance. Acoustic guitars, if you can arrange for the strap to be dark coloured and preferably with a 'busy' pattern on it, you could run a DPA lav down the inside of the strap on the guitar neck side of the payer to about 6" above where it attaches to the guitar, and back over the shoulder and in the collar to a transmitter pack. Clarinet is hard. Really, Borjam's suggestion of a Music stand (or some similar prop to hide a mic on) is your only viable approach. If they can't / won't give you the time and a bit of set dressing co-operation to do the live record properly, then their best options are either to 'pre-record in place' just before the shoot, with proper mics and stands, then remove them and immediately play back for camera, or alternatively for you to get the best guide recording of the on-camera performance you can and then they'll 'post-record' the music in a studio with the same band playing to that guide for 'finger-sync'. If it's part playback and part live, make really sure your playback system and recorder share the same wordclock. Any drift at all can be much more of a pain to edit around with music than with Dialog. +1 "prerecord in place" and then work to playback if possible. If it is all improv you hide the best mics you can wherever you can. The "center" trap kit mic is a great idea--I do this even when doing music only recordings: the "Steve Remote Knee Mic" omni--great basis for a full kit sound. If you can attach mics to other instruments, wired if possible so you can easily change trim, do it. Some instruments you may have to mic up and hide the TX on the player. But before any of that, consider what you can get away with with a set of overhead boom mics. I just did a set of videos shot in a small photo studio with cello, double bass, vocals and a highly varied set of percussion instruments, from huge low Hz drum to salad bowls and delicate shakers, plus stomp and hand percussion. The close mics were great when they worked for some numbers, but the overheads (just normal fishpoles in boom holders like for an interview) helped the most. I had 3 or 4 working all the time, and they became the basis for the mix. I used shotguns for some of those, thereby offending the purist music recordist gods but getting what I needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Immoral Mr Teas Posted September 9, 2018 Report Share Posted September 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Philip Perkins said: ... But before any of that, consider what you can get away with with a set of overhead boom mics. I'd consider what Philip suggests quite seriously: it might even be an excellent acoustic solution, thus pretty much solving the problem and getting a great recording. So if you think in your case it could either help or be the best solution make sure to argue the case with the director and run it over with the DP etc for framing in advance (if that is possible for you) ... Jez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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