Jump to content
OnTheSoundSideOfLife

Wisycom MPR52 with G3/G4 experiences?

Recommended Posts

I've seen this bundle with the MPR52 and two Sennheiser G4 Transmitters. Does anyone have experiences with this combo? I've read an old thread about the MCR42M having different expander modes, one for the Evolution Series. How much of an upgrade is this Receiver (range, sound quality, reliability)? I actually want to go for Zaxcom or Audio Ltd. in the future, but maybe this would be a nice upgrade for my G3's in the meantime.

 

SoundSide

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know. But it would be interesting if someone could share their thoughts.

 

I have some G3/SK2000 and I have been thinking if it would make sense to upgrade the transmitter to a MCR42 as a first step to get a dual diversity transmitter.

 

Seeing the MPR52 is 2k euros alone new, I imagine it would economically make sense to pick up another package second hand.

 

So if you had to upgrade from g3/4/sk2000, would it be a worthwhile upgrade with just a good receiver or is the bottle neck as much the transmitter itself?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/7/2018 at 10:06 PM, OnTheSoundSideOfLife said:

I've seen this bundle with the MPR52 and two Sennheiser G4 Transmitters. Does anyone have experiences with this combo? I've read an old thread about the MCR42M having different expander modes, one for the Evolution Series. How much of an upgrade is this Receiver (range, sound quality, reliability)? I actually want to go for Zaxcom or Audio Ltd. in the future, but maybe this would be a nice upgrade for my G3's in the meantime.

 

SoundSide

Considering this RX (MPR52), maybe the bundle. I'm running G2000s at present. Aside from form factor (very different) - curious to know how much of a performance difference there is between MPR 52 vs MCR42? Anybody got hands on experience with both or heard dealer/manufacturer output on this?  tar.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am waiting for manufacturer/dealer response on questions related to this. I think that the analogue outs on the Mpr52 is noisier, but I am also curious if anyone have got experience with them. Is my guess that a g3 transmitter and a wisy receiver would be a better upgrade path than starting with a wisy transmitter and g3 receiver?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Mattias Larsen said:

I am waiting for manufacturer/dealer response on questions related to this. I think that the analogue outs on the Mpr52 is noisier, but I am also curious if anyone have got experience with them. Is my guess that a g3 transmitter and a wisy receiver would be a better upgrade path than starting with a wisy transmitter and g3 receiver?

Hi Mattias, do share their response (if appropriate). I would guess the same about the upgrade path. WISY RX + G3 TX  >  G3 RX + WISY TX. If only because the Wisy RX can be used with various TX and there is the dual channel analogue RX (that senny never did).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/8/2018 at 12:47 PM, Mattias Larsen said:

I don't know. But it would be interesting if someone could share their thoughts.

 

I have some G3/SK2000 and I have been thinking if it would make sense to upgrade the transmitter to a MCR42 as a first step to get a dual diversity transmitter.

 

Seeing the MPR52 is 2k euros alone new, I imagine it would economically make sense to pick up another package second hand.

 

So if you had to upgrade from g3/4/sk2000, would it be a worthwhile upgrade with just a good receiver or is the bottle neck as much the transmitter itself?

I have a new 42S3, with Wisy MTP40S TXs. I also have some old G3 systems. G3 TX to Wisy RX sounds great! (Still have the hiss of the G3 tx though. Use a hot mic and gain stage properly.)

 

 

15 hours ago, Mattias Larsen said:

I am waiting for manufacturer/dealer response on questions related to this. I think that the analogue outs on the Mpr52 is noisier, but I am also curious if anyone have got experience with them. Is my guess that a g3 transmitter and a wisy receiver would be a better upgrade path than starting with a wisy transmitter and g3 receiver?

 

You cannot receive a Wisycom transmission well with a G3 receiver. The companding is a little different. Wisy's RX is designed to "decode" companding schemes from different manufacturers using a DSP to model the different schemes. The G3 receiver can only "decode" (really, expand) a G3/G2/2000 transmission, as they all use the same "HDX" companding scheme. Companding = COMPressing (TX) + exPANDING (RX)

 

I hate to say it, but I personally like the G3's "EVO" companding a little better. I've never felt that it sounded unnatural. Wisy's ENC, however, is a little jumpy. You can here it in a slightly dynamic, but relatively quiet acoustic noise floor. I don't touch ENR. Never sounds right.

 

To answer THE question, for everyone other than the OP since he's moved on, is for most bag work with a low channel count, I honestly do not think you are gaining THAT much with a Wisy SYSTEM, at least in my experience (and yes I'm coordinating frequencies, and scanning, etc...). I put an SMA connector on one of my old G3s and now I can use an external antenna, or distribution. Range is comparable to Wisy when using as radio mics in a bag, side by side (to be clear, I mean a full-G3 system vs a full Wisycom system. Range is often better than my Wisys on my G3 IEMs that I use as IFB (even with Wisy at 50mw). More often than not, I'd say. I don't care if someone wants to shoot me for saying that–I have experienced this many times at this point. I've done hours of testing and a month of gigging with both systems side by side. Honestly, I'm still having some strange issues with the Wisy system that I've never had with another system (G3, Lectro)–random, but sometimes predictable FULL SCALE blasts of white noise, being the main one. (That'll teach you to keep those faders down!) This could totally be user error, but I have yet to ask the lovely people of this forum or Wisy for assistance. Tone Squelch is on, for those of you about to mention that.. But maybe it's a related setting thats astray. 

 

I think you're best "in between" upgrade at this point is an "old" NARROWBAND Lectrosonics system, i.e. hybrid/400 series that came out before their wideband stuff, which is almost useless (not exaggerating–thinking of the SRc that I forcibly returned after over a year of BS). The wideband stuff I've used of Lectro and Wisycom (SRc and 42S3) are hyper sensitive, RF-wise, or something. Walkie talkies and even bag transmitters can cause a lot of problems with both. Granted walkies are 4 watts or so! Kind of understandable... With the SRc, if you're on a show with another mixer (and yes, a talented supervisor using IAS) don't get near the other mixers! Their transmitters (or likely the interaction of yours and theirs) will blow some shit up! (Your ears I mean.) I haven't been on a muli-mixer show with bags full of Wisys yet, so I can't report too much on that.

 

Get a used UCR411a and a UM400a (the A is important!), SMv, or SMQV transmitter. The older versions of the SMxx series will not have some important features, so make sure you figure that out–like remote control, back light, variable tx power). 

 

I have not used Zaxcom or Audio Limited wireless at all, so I cannot speak to their respective levels of performance. In theory, digital transmission (as these two now use) solves a lot of the problems of analog, namely the need for companding, but creates a bunch of new ones. Can't wait until digital wireless is as evolved as analog is today!

 

Hope this helps someone.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought that I would chime in: Not directly relevant as it concerns IEM rather than using as radio mics but much of the info is equally applicable. I had some spare MTP40S transmitters which I am using for IEM and they give the G3 receivers an added clarity. I also have some MPR30 IEM receivers for the crew and key grown ups. We use in mono mode, pilot off and they are a great combination and well worth the upgrade. The sensitivity of the Wisy receiver is such that a few weeks ago from a 50mW transmitter, we had 150m range from sound cart to an assistant in the van. The biggest negative compared with G3s is battery life of the receivers. You cannot do a day on one set of batteries. This is OK for crew and key production but the other 20 IEM are G3/LD which last all day of black eneloops. 

IMG_4245 2.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can anyone confirm if there is a maximum frequency spacing on the MPR52 if used in two channel mode ? i.e. Both channels would have to be very close together in the same block/channel. I read this is the case but i can't find the reference to it again. As a side note a few of us in the UK have been put off purchasing the MPR52 as the frequency range stops at 800mhz and doesn't include channel 65 (823-832) which is available to us in the UK (under our standard rf license) and in Europe under the same blanket agreement which gives us channel 70 (863-865). It doesn't detract from the very impressive wideband range and its utility worldwide but its not very practical to have to pay a temp license for frequencies in the UK when there is a 9mhz channel very much under used.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, It's All Waves said:

 

 

Get a used UCR411a and a UM400a (the A is important!),

 

 

the A is important just to match them with other brands, what about the rest of functionality, I have bought a used ucr411/um400 (no A)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

 

I am interested of this bundle too. However, i wonder if it would be a real upgrade. They say that mpr52 is a true diversity receiver only when you use one channel and not when when you use two channels. Does this mean that will have similar drop outs like a g3 diversity receiver, when two channels will be used? If this is the case, i think that i doesn't worth it.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you don’t intend on going with Wyzicom then I think you’re just spending money to spend money, and I think that, aside from the benefits of having a dual receiver in your bag, you won’t necessarily see much improvement. 

 

Ive dialed in my Lectro SR receivers to capture Sennheiser wireless at events when I can see them being used and need to grab the audio, and the signal is usually ok at best, even without great distance and in line-of-sight.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/14/2018 at 1:26 AM, TJW said:

I thought that I would chime in: Not directly relevant as it concerns IEM rather than using as radio mics but much of the info is equally applicable. I had some spare MTP40S transmitters which I am using for IEM and they give the G3 receivers an added clarity. I also have some MPR30 IEM receivers for the crew and key grown ups. We use in mono mode, pilot off and they are a great combination and well worth the upgrade. The sensitivity of the Wisy receiver is such that a few weeks ago from a 50mW transmitter, we had 150m range from sound cart to an assistant in the van. The biggest negative compared with G3s is battery life of the receivers. You cannot do a day on one set of batteries. This is OK for crew and key production but the other 20 IEM are G3/LD which last all day of black eneloops. 

IMG_4245 2.jpeg


Sorry for reviving an old thread. @TJW I’m curious to hear more about your experience in using Wisycom transmitters with G3/G4 IEM receivers. 
 

I’m currently making a switch from Lectro IFB to Sennheiser ones, but want to pair the IEMs with a more capable bag-friendly transmitter. I’m a Zaxcom user and all my talent mics cannot tune below 512, so ideally I’d get IEMs in the A1 band (470-516). Sennheiser currently does not offer the 100mW-capable SK2000 in that band, limiting me to their SK500 G3/G4 transmitters at a 50mW max. Lectro tx in compatibility modes are an option but not that great to my ears. 
 

I’d also be interested to hear how good/bad the sound quality is of a Wisycom MCR52 receiving audio from a Wisycom transmitter all in EVO modulation. 
 

The “perfect” scenario for me would be to have 2x transmitters in the bag sending “broadcast-quality“ audio to a dual channel receiver on an eng camera, and clients with G4 IEMs being able to tune into the same frequencies. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Derek H said:

Carlos, Sennheiser has a new high powered 2000 series transmitter that has an sma connector s as well. SK2250 I think


@Derek H from what I’ve read, is basically a 250mW-only version of the SK2000, and just like the 2K is not available in the A1 (470-516) frequency band I’m looking for. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Carlos Maeda said:

The “perfect” scenario for me would be to have 2x transmitters in the bag sending “broadcast-quality“ audio to a dual channel receiver on an eng camera, and clients with G4 IEMs being able to tune into the same frequencies. 

 

The goal is to be as efficient with my spectrum use as possible by reducing the number of transmitters needed. 
 

In the past I’ve been able to accomplish this with just mono-scratch/reference audio to camera by using a Lectro system all set to IFB mode. Trying to replicate this as best as possible with “broadcast-quality” audio to camera, for the few instances where it’s still necessary. 


I’ve tried doing this with Lectro SRc/LT in modes 3 and 6 (units were pre-ETSI compliant) with disappointing results. TX to IFB sounded ok in Mode 3 and better in Mode 6, but less than ideal audio with very low gain levels when SRc set to matching mode. 
 

I could replicate the same with Lectro’s DHCT and M2R units, but at over $1k a piece that’s a heavy pill to swallow if I want to have 8+ IFBs and hand them out to producers and agency creatives. Hence my desire to find a system that would work the inexpensive yet good sounding Senn IEMs. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem with your setup is that the Wisycom receiver can emulate the HDX modulation of the Evo systems, but not the transmitters. Your only options are Enc or Enr. Thus the IFB receivers will not be compatible. You should indeed use Sennheiser transmitters with the MCR52. 
regarding the sound quality, I recently used a MCR52 un EVO mode with a G3 and I didn’t noticed any artifacts or problem. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, henrimic said:

The problem with your setup is that the Wisycom receiver can emulate the HDX modulation of the Evo systems, but not the transmitters. Your only options are Enc or Enr. Thus the IFB receivers will not be compatible. You should indeed use Sennheiser transmitters with the MCR52. 
regarding the sound quality, I recently used a MCR52 un EVO mode with a G3 and I didn’t noticed any artifacts or problem. 

 

My instinct was to agree with you henrimic - use Sennheiser TX  with Sennheiser and Wisycom RX, because the MPR52 can emulate, but TJW seems to be saying otherwise: "I had some spare MTP40S transmitters which I am using for IEM and they give the G3 receivers an added clarity. I also have some MPR30 IEM receivers for the crew and key grown ups."

Maybe TJW's Wisycom TX(!) can also emulate (Sennheiser EVO).

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, daniel said:

 

My instinct was to agree with you henrimic - use Sennheiser TX  with Sennheiser and Wisycom RX, because the MPR52 can emulate, but TJW seems to be saying otherwise: "I had some spare MTP40S transmitters which I am using for IEM and they give the G3 receivers an added clarity. I also have some MPR30 IEM receivers for the crew and key grown ups."

Maybe TJW's Wisycom TX(!) can also emulate (Sennheiser EVO).

 


@daniel That’s what made me revive this thread. To my knowledge and everything I’ve read so far, only Wisy receivers can emulate EVO modulation not transmitters. 
 

@henrimic how would you describe the audio quality of the G3 tx to MCR52? While I would’ve preferred to use Wisy tx for higher power output and wideband spectrum, this could sitll possibly serve my original goal of having a pair of tx transmit “broadcast quality” audio to camera while also being able to listen to either tx via Senn IEM. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Carlos Maeda said:

@henrimic how would you describe the audio quality of the G3 tx to MCR52? While I would’ve preferred to use Wisy tx for higher power output and wideband spectrum, this could sitll possibly serve my original goal of having a pair of tx transmit “broadcast quality” audio to camera while also being able to listen to either tx via Senn IEM. 

 

Hi Carlos,

I havn't made AB testing of Sennheiser RX vs MPR52 in Evo mode, but to my ears, the sound was ok, without any hiss, artifacts or pumping. 

Unfortunately I can not make such a comparative test now as I am on vacation, but I could try when I'm back.

What is sure, is that using the wrong compander gives absolutely unusable results.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have compared the quality of sound between MPR52 (EVO) vs EK2000 from the same SK2000 (TX). My conclusion was MPR52 Output was cleaner. YMMV - I was using AES O/P of MPR52 vs Line Level Analogue of EK2000. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/24/2019 at 10:38 AM, daniel said:

I have compared the quality of sound between MPR52 (EVO) vs EK2000 from the same SK2000 (TX). My conclusion was MPR52 Output was cleaner. YMMV - I was using AES O/P of MPR52 vs Line Level Analogue of EK2000. 

Hi Daniel ! I have some Questions about MPR52 with Sennheisers transmitters. I Have two gen. SK50 and G3 with MKE2 gold mics... Both has  different companders SK50-HiDyn Plus and G3-HDX. I bought  new MCR52 but Output audio from receiver is not good. It looks like low output AF level on EVO side. I setup freq./ompd. (Sen - HiDynPlus, EVO-HDX) but output level is very low( On SK50 mode Sen comp. was better ). I must set on both TX sides more mics gain for better results. With A-B comparisons Sen compander looks like OK, but with G3 and EVO looks bad. Low AF out and no low freq, I try set OUT level to 9dB but on Evo side was some noise and low bass than original G3 RX. I must set on Outbput level to 18dB and change IN on my Mixpre10 II to LINE and get Dig.Gain and it looks bbetter. On Headphone output is same problem. Wisycom recent the HP output is very strong bbubt in My casy, Isn't. Hmm  

I have not yet test - compare same config with Wisy MCR42S of my friend, do you have some idea where can be a problem? What I found in menu-version of firmware = 1.6. But on officials web sites there is version 1.4. ??? Thank you 🙏 Jan Czech Republic

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Jan,

 

My set-up is primarily SK5212ii (SENN mode)/MPR52 with AES I/P to a 633. When it's not AES I use line level, eg max O/P from MPR52 and the line only I/Ps of the 633. When not using SK5212ii I use SK2000 (EVO mode). Obviously you want as close to full deflection on the TX as you are comfortable. Pilot tone set to off? I had the Wisycom FW updated last year so iirc it is the current 1 - the FW the 52 arrived with would NOT let me use 2 different expander modes at the same time (eg SENN and EVO) - the latter FW does. Are you doing side by side (AB) test with G3 RX against MPR52 on best setting? I did test my all my TX with all the expander modes on the 52 (against the native RX) - it was interesting  to listen to the differences but I use my EVOs in EVO mode and SENNs in SENN mode.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...