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Announcing the SPDR two channel bag/field recorder

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1 hour ago, JFtaper said:

Multiple devices would still run off their own clocks once disconnected so im not even sure you could say this has 'real' timecode/word clock. even the best clocks out there will drift apart due to crystal variation as well as thermal factors.

less than a frame over a 24h period is sufficient. Jam/sync 1 or 2 times a (working) day and you are good. 

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interesting. i know guys that do multitrack audio with multiple recorders and claim they get audible phasing in short order. a quote from a friend from another board

 

I generally allow +/- 20 ms max error, which would be +/- 960 samples at 48kHz. Some purists will say that they can hear 10ms smear but I don't find it much of a problem for rock & roll.

Sony, Tascam, Roland (Edirol)... none of these machines have tightly matched clocks between machines. After an hour, you can hear a "Flam" on almost any two recorders.
Use my spreadsheet if you would like to fiddle with some examples. You can download it if you prefer.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pQGfYwPgBFFzcY5m6aRj-Zbu9HsRumLy-tJB1d8Eufg/edit#gid=583050244
 

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46 minutes ago, JFtaper said:

Sony, Tascam, Roland (Edirol)

There you have it, recorders with non reliable clocks/oscillators whatever. Don't believe Sony and Tascam even make TC accurate/capable devices anyways.

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59 minutes ago, JFtaper said:

interesting. i know guys that do multitrack audio with multiple recorders and claim they get audible phasing in short order. a quote from a friend from another board

 

I generally allow +/- 20 ms max error, which would be +/- 960 samples at 48kHz. Some purists will say that they can hear 10ms smear but I don't find it much of a problem for rock & roll.

Sony, Tascam, Roland (Edirol)... none of these machines have tightly matched clocks between machines. After an hour, you can hear a "Flam" on almost any two recorders.
Use my spreadsheet if you would like to fiddle with some examples. You can download it if you prefer.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pQGfYwPgBFFzcY5m6aRj-Zbu9HsRumLy-tJB1d8Eufg/edit#gid=583050244
14 hours ago, JFtaper said:

I think the timecode is what makes it so expensive, and its something i would never need. Im not exactly sure (please educate me im not an ENG/broadcast guy),  but isnt 'Time Code Jam' just a reference marker? Multiple devices would still run off their own clocks once disconnected so im not even sure you could say this has 'real' timecode/word clock. even the best clocks out there will drift apart due to crystal variation as well as thermal factors. maybe not a factor with short take ENG stuff, but i want to record several hours of audio at a time, which requires post-processing to sync multiple sources

 

Yes, timecode is just a metadata stamp at the start of each file. Synchronising timecode clocks between devices is not the same as synchronising the 'recording clock' between devices (that's what genlock is for). Timecode and genlock are different things. Vincent was referencing that within the world of production sound for picture that this website is mostly aimed at, timecode clocks which drift from each other less than 1 frame per working day is sufficient for ensuring that the metadata stamps at the start of each file are in sync with each other across devices. Yes, once recording begins, the devices all record based on their own recording clocks, but for keeping the sound in sync with the image, anything less than 1 frame of drift over the course of a take is fine. For multitrack audio across multiple recorders, you need much more accuracy, as you say. Down to a single sample, really.

 

The SPDR never claimed to have genlock capability. It claims to have timecode capability, which it does have. But, no, timecode will not help you for your purposes. I used to be dabble in TS.com hobbyism myself, some years ago, so I fully understand what your purposes are 😉

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I wonder if Sony ever made a recorder with timecode, quite possibly one slipped by us. There is for instance that pro mixer (the Sony DMX-P01) which even has AES, so I bet if Sony had just carried that on into the future a bit longer then I'm sure Sony would have made one with timecode. 

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8 hours ago, IronFilm said:

I wonder if Sony ever made a recorder with timecode, quite possibly one slipped by us. There is for instance that pro mixer (the Sony DMX-P01) which even has AES, so I bet if Sony had just carried that on into the future a bit longer then I'm sure Sony would have made one with timecode. 

Yeah I remember seeing that one for the first time. IBC 2003/4 or something as a prototype. Never saw it in the wild though. Also never saw one with recording functionality/TC. 

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On ‎4‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 4:11 PM, JFtaper said:

interesting. i know guys that do multitrack audio with multiple recorders and claim they get audible phasing in short order. a quote from a friend from another board

 

I generally allow +/- 20 ms max error, which would be +/- 960 samples at 48kHz. Some purists will say that they can hear 10ms smear but I don't find it much of a problem for rock & roll.

Sony, Tascam, Roland (Edirol)... none of these machines have tightly matched clocks between machines. After an hour, you can hear a "Flam" on almost any two recorders.
Use my spreadsheet if you would like to fiddle with some examples. You can download it if you prefer.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pQGfYwPgBFFzcY5m6aRj-Zbu9HsRumLy-tJB1d8Eufg/edit#gid=583050244
 

I know this isn't really relevant to regular location sound work but I'd never record phase correlated material across multiple recorders, even when they are "locked", "synched" or whatever. If you have ever listened to the " Auto-align" plug in do it's sample offset thing to align phase you'll see that even one or two samples will massively mess up phase between 2 correlated microphones , that's 1/24thousands of a second, or 0.04 ms, nothing purist about hearing that. I doubt that any of the recorders mentioned here can be locked with 100% sample accuracy

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