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9 hours ago, The Immoral Mr Teas said:

Jose, re- "ambisonics the way in post" and Dan, "successfully model the polar pattern" - Jose, I know you use Ambisonics regularly and have far more experience than me - but I think it's to an end (VR from where I've followed your posts) where the technique works. I'm going to throw out the gauntlet once again and say in many areas it can be problematic. And theatrical film, under Dolby Digital for instance, is one: both for the mixing side of the signal and the presentation side of the theatre. I'm pretty certain that with the expansion of VR and renaissance of ambisonics with it that cinema, in tech and presentation, will probably finally move to incorporate it (and maybe this is already easier with Atmos and Auro3D for instance but not enough to mix with older formats in mind). Please - if any theatrical mixers are reading please chip in here.

 

Most of my use of Ambisonics is for VR, correct, but we're also working on and developing new applications for the technology, and pushing it's boundaries.

 

That said you're not wrong. I wouldn't use an encoded format like Ambisonics for playback in theater. Main issue IMO is that sound playback is a whole business on its own with too many theater formats from companies like Dolby, Auro, DTS, THX, etc that would make it damn near impossible to convert into an open format like Ambisonics. My suggestion was merely its use for recording sound effects and ambiences for post, and then decoding and printing to a discreet output format like 5.1, 7.1 or even 7.1.4 (as now the SoundField by Rode supports) that can then be added into the final mix. This would present far more flexibility for the capture and manipulation of sound effects and ambiences IMO. I believe some post sound houses have started to adopt this, though definitely not mainstream yet.

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6 hours ago, Jose Frias said:

My suggestion was merely its use for recording sound effects and ambiences for post, and then decoding and printing to a discreet output format like 5.1, 7.1 or even 7.1.4 (as now the SoundField by Rode supports) that can then be added into the final mix. This would present far more flexibility for the capture and manipulation of sound effects and ambiences IMO. I believe some post sound houses have started to adopt this, though definitely not mainstream yet.

 

... And exactly what I was hoping to make a point AGAINST, Jose! I'm trying to say it ISN'T a magic formula that can just be reencoded to anything you want. If you could record and then perfectly reencoded an effect like this then what makes that any different from dialogue? A noise in the end is no different than an actor's crafted performance. Only when we throw away the 'magic beans' wrapper can we start using this technique in ways and situations that will give great - not mediocre or problematic - results.

 

Jez

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Jez, I hear what saying about magic formula etc. I would definitely disagree about: "A noise in the end is no different than an actor's crafted performance."

Aside from just how the sound is formed and directed into the air from the mouth (as opposed to most 'unvoiced' sounds) there is also a big difference in how the sound needs to work. That's why:

Telephones sound bad but intelligible and subtitles don't include the sound effects - although it would be cool if they did:-)

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8 hours ago, The Immoral Mr Teas said:

 

... And exactly what I was hoping to make a point AGAINST, Jose! I'm trying to say it ISN'T a magic formula that can just be reencoded to anything you want. If you could record and then perfectly reencoded an effect like this then what makes that any different from dialogue? A noise in the end is no different than an actor's crafted performance. Only when we throw away the 'magic beans' wrapper can we start using this technique in ways and situations that will give great - not mediocre or problematic - results.

 

Jez

 

I'm talking more about sound effects like cars passing by from one side to another, where you would typically employ a stereo technique, or a broadband sound source like a waterfall where you'd also record the ambience. Anything more isolated than that I would personally use a different tool. I don't consider Ambisonics magic, just a tool, and knowing how to use it is the key. That said, we don't have to agree.

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On 9/20/2018 at 7:45 PM, Jose Frias said:

 

I'm talking more about sound effects like cars passing by from one side to another, where you would typically employ a stereo technique, or a broadband sound source like a waterfall where you'd also record the ambience. Anything more isolated than that I would personally use a different tool. I don't consider Ambisonics magic, just a tool, and knowing how to use it is the key. That said, we don't have to agree.

+1

 

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