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Daniel Ignacio

Deity Connect.

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18 minutes ago, codyman said:

Aren't most wireless video systems such as Teradeck in the 5ghz spectrum these days?

Must've had some old info, since I learned about wireless video systems a couple of years back. Shouldn't be that much of a problem, in that case. There's still the 2.4GHz congestion in most residential areas to consider.

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1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

 

A G3 receiver is too big for you?! They're pretty small already. 
And remember the Deity is a dual receiver, so you need to compare it to the size of two receivers. 

 

Not the receiver, but the transmitter.

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1 hour ago, VAS said:

 

Not the receiver, but the transmitter.

Ah, sorry, my bad, replied too hastily. 

Well what matters the most is usually the thickness of it, and the thickness seems quite reasonable and comparable to a G3/UWP/UM400/etc. 

And as for a G3 TX being too big, well for many people it usually is ok, and if you have to go much smaller then you're entering into quite specialized/expensive territory such as a SSM. 

 

I'd hope though that Deity makes a smaller TX in the future, but for their first product? I feel this is a close enough to a good size to make it be. (as going a lot smaller leads to functionality/price/battery life compromises)

 

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10 hours ago, IronFilm said:

 I'd hope though that Deity makes a smaller TX in the future, but for their first product? I feel this is a close enough to a good size to make it be. (as going a lot smaller leads to functionality/price/battery life compromises)

 

Yeap, not bad for first generation of wireless from Deity.

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Reports from IBC is that they're getting on the trade show's floor (which is undoubtedly a VERY hostile environment! Much tougher RF than our usual shoots) multiple times further range than RodeLinks would. 

So let's not just yet judge them on the basis of poor performance of other 2.4GHz products

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Doesn't Deity's TX put out up to 100mW? How much power does the Rodelink belt-pack tx put out? Isn't it something like 10mW (I really don't recall)?

 

Not slagging Deity much, but you know tradeshow talk... And perhaps Rode will release something new in the coming months, around the same time Deity ships.

 

2.4GHz holds promise of course, and competition is good. And I'd be more than happy to spend $800 for two channels w/lavs rather than $6000 or so. But I really want to know what I'm giving up.

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I don't see your operation of a wireless channel in trade show booth as "worst-case" at all.  I see it as more or less ideal compared to many frequently encountered shooting situations.    And yeah, charging batteries is my personal responsibility, but as a soundie I look for gear that backs me up even when I make mistakes, since one is not always at one's very best on a long difficult job, right?  Since this gear is still in development I would encourage them to make a way to have the battery, whatever it is, be swappable.  A door with a quick swap is ideal (esp if they have a charger that can charge "naked" batteries), but even the ability to quickly unscrew a lid or etc to get at the battery would be preferable to something permanently wired in.  That is just something a good percentage of pro mixers will never go for.  A current example of a "difficult but possible " battery swap are the Mozegear QBits--if you have to you can unscrew the case and swap the rechargeable battery in the field.  

 

Also....not yellow for the TX?  I mean--most of us are in the business of HIDING transmitters, so dark or neutral colors are what is needed...

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3 hours ago, Philip Perkins said:

I don't see your operation of a wireless channel in trade show booth as "worst-case" at all.  I see it as more or less ideal compared to many frequently encountered shooting situations.    And yeah, charging batteries is my personal responsibility, but as a soundie I look for gear that backs me up even when I make mistakes, since one is not always at one's very best on a long difficult job, right?  Since this gear is still in development I would encourage them to make a way to have the battery, whatever it is, be swappable.  A door with a quick swap is ideal (esp if they have a charger that can charge "naked" batteries), but even the ability to quickly unscrew a lid or etc to get at the battery would be preferable to something permanently wired in.  That is just something a good percentage of pro mixers will never go for.  A current example of a "difficult but possible " battery swap are the Mozegear QBits--if you have to you can unscrew the case and swap the rechargeable battery in the field.  

 

Also....not yellow for the TX?  I mean--most of us are in the business of HIDING transmitters, so dark or neutral colors are what is needed...

You make some excellent points. The fact of the matter is that it is basically like how Mozgear does it already; The TX has 4 screws, you can undo them, the lipo cell is just attached with 2 leads to the board. instead of a proprietary battery from one of the camera brands, you can use any 1 cell lipo battery ( it is a standardised connector) or buy spare ones from Deity directly (they will be available for sale). they are chargeable with any  RC /car/drone style charger, so pick a good one or use the one you might already have. 

So yeah, in case of an emergency (again, with a run time of 15 hours+ realistically...) it takes as long as it takes you to undo 4 screws in the field the swap out a TX battery and that is about it. But yeah, that is how you can have a redundant solution.

About the YELLOW, yes that will be black, with a tiny bit branding yellow, nothing intrusive. I already saw the mockup of the new design. 

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5 hours ago, Vincent R. said:

So yeah, in case of an emergency (again, with a run time of 15 hours+ realistically...) it takes as long as it takes you to undo 4 screws in the field the swap out a TX battery and that is about it. But yeah, that is how you can have a redundant solution.


15Hrs is an impressive number, but I just wanted to point out that the last thing I would want to do is deal with four screws to replace a LiPo battery in the 15th hour of a shoot.

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I guess at this price point you'd just have quite a few on hand and that way you never have to worry about batteries crapping out on you.  Speaking of which, in ideal spaces, how many channels can you run simultaneously?  Obviously in a busy area of 2.4ghz traffic I'd imagine your mileage would greatly vary.

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48 minutes ago, Alex Mitchell said:

the last thing I would want to do is deal with four screws to replace a LiPo battery in the 15th hour of a shoot

 

You could charge up during lunch, thanks to the promised fast charge time. I don’t mean to defend that design decision though.

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3 hours ago, Alex Mitchell said:


15Hrs is an impressive number, but I just wanted to point out that the last thing I would want to do is deal with four screws to replace a LiPo battery in the 15th hour of a shoot.


If you know in advance the shoot might be 15hrs long (!!!) then you could pop then on charge over lunch. Seeing as they reach full charge in only an hour!

2 hours ago, codyman said:

Speaking of which, in ideal spaces, how many channels can you run simultaneously? 


I'd be curious about this as well, RodeLinks are limited to a max of 8 at once.

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12 hours ago, Vincent R. said:

You make some excellent points. The fact of the matter is that it is basically like how Mozgear does it already; The TX has 4 screws, you can undo them, the lipo cell is just attached with 2 leads to the board. instead of a proprietary battery from one of the camera brands, you can use any 1 cell lipo battery ( it is a standardised connector) or buy spare ones from Deity directly (they will be available for sale). they are chargeable with any  RC /car/drone style charger, so pick a good one or use the one you might already have. 

So yeah, in case of an emergency (again, with a run time of 15 hours+ realistically...) it takes as long as it takes you to undo 4 screws in the field the swap out a TX battery and that is about it. But yeah, that is how you can have a redundant solution.

About the YELLOW, yes that will be black, with a tiny bit branding yellow, nothing intrusive. I already saw the mockup of the new design. 

The receptacles for the (machine?) screws better be good if this is the plan. A lot of devices this size (and budget) use self tapping case screws into a pillar of the same plastic as the housing - I'm sure I'm not the only 1 to think this and similar would have a very limited life if this was being done repeatedly in the field. But at $800 for 2 channels maybe another $400 for 2 extra TX is not the end of the world for those working long gigs (who most likely will keep working with their expensive analogue systems long enough to maybe consider version 2 or 3 of this 2.4 system, if ever).

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22 hours ago, Jim Feeley said:

 How much power does the Rodelink belt-pack tx put out? Isn't it something like 10mW (I really don't recall)?

 

 

Rode won't publish that spec. When I was a dealer for them I asked a bunch of different people at Rode a bunch of different ways to try and get that spec, but could never get it. This was as of a year ago. Not sure if they changed that now. 

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Perhaps Rode was thinking with a 10mW tx, just one version could be sold worldwide (Japan, for example, sets a 10mW limit, right?). And perhaps they worry that the low-end of their market would think, "I want one with more em double yous" rather than "this works for me."

 

And this page makes it look like the RODElink beltpack puts out 11mW

https://fccid.io/2AEAN391001

 

But weird that Rode is so secretive...

 

Anyway, if there is a tx power difference, that could account for all/most/some of the range difference between Rode and Deity, no?

 

I'll keep a casual eye on Deity's stuff, but it's going to take a lot of to convince me that they're for me. I mean, I need four new channels, and I'd be happy to save $8,000+, but I'm not going to be first in town to buy these. Not a slag; we'll probably see these all over the place.

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I think it looks interesting, and the price point is very impressive..

I dont like the internal battery, but I guess one could adapt a workflow to make it work. However, jury is still out on how they hold up in real life. I also wonder how they sound? how stable the signal is? how relaiable they are in the field? and what their costumer service and support is like? I am also very skeptical of it being 2.4ghz and dont like that the outputs are 3.5mm jacks. Also it looks like its made out of cheap plastic. 

 

It might be a good option over the rode link, but thats not saying much in my opinion.  

We will have to wait and see.

 

Eather way its unfair to compare them with pro gear since I doubt their target market is professional sound mixers.. so its probably fine for most people. 

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I have my doubts regarding the 2.4 GHz band because it´s terribly polluted. 

 

I remember back in 2002 or so when wireless networks were a very expensive rarity. In order to keep a link across the street I didn't even need an access point, I used two poorly placed wireless cards in p2p mode. The band was empty at most locations except for the odd microwave motion detector and the typical AV links.

 

There are amazing spread spectrum modulation schemes that can work wonders (I remember my experiments with LoRa and 2 dBm transmissions, albeit extremely slow of course) but miracles don't exist. Maybe they are benefitting from the latest advances in computing/power consumption relationship.

 

That said, Deity need to get their act together. Last month I wondered about their microphones and I checked several websites in Europe. It wasn't clear which of the official looking websites was the manufacturer or just a dealer. With these Chinese brands often the "official" website is a dealer. Moreover, the arrangement can expire and a new website may appear while the old one keeps old stock for sale. And if you want to buy the latest version, how do you know?

 

 

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On 9/26/2018 at 11:34 PM, borjam said:

That said, Deity need to get their act together. Last month I wondered about their microphones and I checked several websites in Europe. It wasn't clear which of the official looking websites was the manufacturer or just a dealer. With these Chinese brands often the "official" website is a dealer. Moreover, the arrangement can expire and a new website may appear while the old one keeps old stock for sale. And if you want to buy the latest version, how do you know?

Well I don't know about these other Chinese brands you talk about but we only have 1 website.... www..DeityMic.com and its a global site that I created based in Los Angeles. So if its on our one and only site, you can trust it. 😀

 

Also as for range and such I totally get everyone's fear. We did some testing in Amsterdam at the hotel (a concrete block Motel 6 type 5floor hotel.) We placed a TX (100mw) on the ground in the front parking lot, we than walked the RX around the building and to the back fire escape ( through 12 motel rooms, the lobby, and dumpster) and we still got signal without a single RF hit.  Total distance was roughly 150ft linear. 

 

We did than a "LOS" test (though 5 charter buses did break LOS) and we walked the car park. We than had to exit the car park and start to walk down the road. Total range was roughly 425ft before we experienced a RF hit. This was all based on our stock 3dBi whips. 

 

Remember 2.4Ghz also has a wide range of possible whips. If you were to use a 2.4Ghz whip that was roughly the same length as you'd use for UHF, you'd be looking at a 14dBi ... whip. We just can't test using those whips nor can we bundle them with the wireless because we are limited to a radiator power of 125mw MAX (RF power + antenna gain). The key to over coming the obstacle of 2.4Ghz being a small wavelength is being able to collect as much signal as possible. 

On 9/19/2018 at 11:52 AM, Jim Feeley said:

 

And this page makes it look like the RODElink beltpack puts out 11mW

https://fccid.io/2AEAN391001

 

 

Correct, and if you look at the RODELink XLR transmitter its only 7mw. The Azden XD Pro is 4mw and the Line 6 TX is around 25mw. Also all these systems are single antenna systems that feature 0-3dBi gain. (Only the single channel 19" 1U Line 6 receiver unit is dual antenna.)

42157359_1941630836141427_8537651035982790656_n.jpg

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18 minutes ago, Philip Perkins said:

Sorry if it's been covered already, but what dealers have these radios?

 

IIRC, these are scheduled to first be available in about six months.

 

Hopefully, Andrew can fill us in a bit more...

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4 minutes ago, Jim Feeley said:

Hopefully, Andrew can fill us in a bit more...

 

I'll try to keep people up to date on the progress. Currently the units are back on the workbench being shrunk down in size and some of the built quality being increased. We also are adding some stuff that will make a lot of people incredibly happy. Stuff that I've seen people here in JWSoundGroup ask for for years. 

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