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Daniel Ignacio

Deity Connect.

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10 hours ago, Ed Denton said:

My initial thoughts on these are that they would be great as camera hops. My understanding from watching the video is that if you are using it for a camera hop, you would only need 1 transmitter pack as it is a stereo transmitter. Only needing 1 stereo transmitter, the fact that it is in 2.4gHz so you won't be getting RF spray on your talent mic receivers in your bag and the bi-directional aspect all seem perfect for a hop. The downside for me is the 3.5mm mic connector. My brief dabbling in the world of G3 wireless was quickly dispensed when I had issues with the 3.5mm connectors. When a talent has a transmitter in their pocket or belt it is common for there to be pressure placed on the connector (if they're sitting for example). Even with a locking connector there can be a slight lever action on the 3.5mm shaft which causes the tip of the connector to intermittently lose connection causing horrible crackles in the audio signal. This doesn't happen with lateral pin structures such as TA5 or lemo. I just have a total lack of confidence in 3.5mm connectors on talent wireless.

I hear that. 1 reason why i went with SK2000 TX and got the hirose upgrade on my Sony TX.

If you're using the TX in the bag as a hop it's less of an issue I think. That said I do use right angle, locking mini-jacks on the O/P of the EK2000 (RX). These project c.20mm so something similar with the Deity TX would have less leverage in a pocket. The locking minijack receivers are quite big - maybe room to have the unit modified with a lemo.

IMG_1022.JPGI

 

Re 1 TX, 2 channels:   I wonder if it's viable for 1 of the channels to be TC?

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I've had issues with the molded-on locking 3.5mm TRS plugs. The Switchcraft and TecNec (Calarc) are pretty reliable. Still not as tough as a TA (mini XLR) though.

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On 3/29/2019 at 2:24 PM, daniel said:

I hear that. 1 reason why i went with SK2000 TX and got the hirose upgrade on my Sony TX.

If you're using the TX in the bag as a hop it's less of an issue I think. That said I do use right angle, locking mini-jacks on the O/P of the EK2000 (RX). These project c.20mm so something similar with the Deity TX would have less leverage in a pocket. The locking minijack receivers are quite big - maybe room to have the unit modified with a lemo.

IMG_1022.JPGI

 

Re 1 TX, 2 channels:   I wonder if it's viable for 1 of the channels to be TC?

Theese connectors looks slick! Where can they be found?

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13 hours ago, chrismedr said:

short video with some info and price point

(699 USD for 2 TX, dual RX, Lavs and Case):

 

 

Wow! I think I heard "669$".

 

I wonder how this price will translate in European money!

 

If it is close to 700-749 for 2 TX I can see a lot of people having at least a set to their kits, from the absolute amateur to the most knowledgeable pro.

 

It is the price of 2 X cheap Senn/Rode ones of the same technology.

 

I wanted to buy into a 2.4Ghz set for some time now.

 

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Just now, Kisaha said:

 

If it is close to 700-749 for 2 TX I can see a lot of people having at least a set to their kits, from the absolute amateur to the most knowledgeable pro.

  

It is the price of 2 X cheap Senn/Rode ones of the same technology.


Yeah some of my friends are super excited about this. 

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Obviously these are not high grade, c.$2500 per channel radios with the ability to find and use clear UHF frequencies to build a high channel count RM system working over a reasonable distance but I think there could be a place for a cheap, high channel count, low range system.

 

So I'd really like to see side by side range and quantity (saturation?) tests of these against the other new 2.4ghz systems (rode and sennheiser) and a competent analogue system (sony, sennheiser).

On paper and cost the Deity should be better than the Senny or Rode things which are clearly aimed at the consumer end of the market but whatever the other differences between these 2.4ghz technologies, some are claiming higher track channel counts than others. Despite the crappy connectors on the Rode I feel being able to use 8 in the same location may make this a more useful thing for some corporate and factual work. Eg. what's the point of a cheap system (4 channels of Deity cost less than 1 of what I'm currently using) if you can't have high numbers? 

I know people are talking about these for camera hops but I use my older radio systems to send a scratch when needed for reference and prefer file based deliverables.

 

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35 minutes ago, daniel said:

Obviously these are not high grade, c.$2500 per channel radios with the ability to find and use clear UHF frequencies to build a high channel count RM system working over a reasonable distance but I think there could be a place for a cheap, high channel count, low range system.

 

So I'd really like to see side by side range and quantity (saturation?) tests of these against the other new 2.4ghz systems (rode and sennheiser) and a competent analogue system (sony, sennheiser).

On paper and cost the Deity should be better than the Senny or Rode things which are clearly aimed at the consumer end of the market but whatever the other differences between these 2.4ghz technologies, some are claiming higher track channel counts than others. Despite the crappy connectors on the Rode I feel being able to use 8 in the same location may make this a more useful thing for some corporate and factual work. Eg. what's the point of a cheap system (4 channels of Deity cost less than 1 of what I'm currently using) if you can't have high numbers? 

I know people are talking about these for camera hops but I use my older radio systems to send a scratch when needed for reference and prefer file based deliverables.

 

How many of those can be used simultaneously?

 

I wasn't planning to build a kit put of them, but 2 or 4 additional channels make sense for some uses.

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From what I've heard:

Deity x 4 (maybe 6).

Senny/Rode x 8.

No numbers on latency of senny/rode systems, 19ms for Deity.

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1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

I wonder how this price will translate in European money!

599 EURO ex taxes. https://www.teltec.de/deity-microphones-connect.html

 

1 hour ago, daniel said:

So I'd really like to see side by side range and quantity (saturation?) tests of these against the other new 2.4ghz systems (rode and sennheiser) and a competent analogue system (sony, sennheiser).

Here is a first test (of many to come) out there comparing it to a 50mw Sennheiser G4 set. 

 

1 hour ago, daniel said:

Eg. what's the point of a cheap system (4 channels of Deity cost less than 1 of what I'm currently using) if you can't have high numbers? 

It is the target audience, to put it simple; Target audience of the Deity Connect) is NOT the high track count jobs (indeed think corporate gigs, small commercials, indie features what not. Not a cooking/remote island/big brother contest with 12 talents running in all directions).
Personally I am 99% of my jobs under 4 wireless. of those 99% jobs 90% are just 2 channels the most... this is from a bag, alone, with a boom in my other hand.
 

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2 hours ago, Kisaha said:

You are not??!!

I am  excited. 😄
Just not SUPER excited like they are!

As unlike them I've already got waaaaaaay too many wireless :-o

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5 hours ago, IronFilm said:

I am  excited. 😄
Just not SUPER excited like they are!

As unlike them I've already got waaaaaaay too many wireless 😮

I am slightly excited, I will probably get 2 Ch just in case!

 

Reading the forum today, I noticed how many "cheap" products are worthy talking about recently, while years ago it was only G3, a Tascam or 2, and Rode started to make a dent in the industry, almost like Aputure does right now.

 

Exciting times for young filmakers, they can be really productive for cheap.

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3 hours ago, Kisaha said:

Exciting times for young filmakers, they can be really productive for cheap.

 

agreed, but unfortunately hard times for the professional sound mixer who has to feed a family since more and more people will buy a cheap mic, cheap wireless, cheap recorder etc and budgets for sound will be adjusted accordingly (wages and equipment rates).

same things happened to the camera side when the 5DmkII came to market.  

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11 hours ago, chrismedr said:

 

agreed, but unfortunately hard times for the professional sound mixer who has to feed a family since more and more people will buy a cheap mic, cheap wireless, cheap recorder etc and budgets for sound will be adjusted accordingly (wages and equipment rates).

same things happened to the camera side when the 5DmkII came to market.  

You tell me!

I am that professional...

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11 hours ago, chrismedr said:

 

agreed, but unfortunately hard times for the professional sound mixer who has to feed a family since more and more people will buy a cheap mic, cheap wireless, cheap recorder etc and budgets for sound will be adjusted accordingly (wages and equipment rates).

same things happened to the camera side when the 5DmkII came to market.  

This.

 

Interesting range test from A.W, Aside from logarithmic physics regarding increasing power (TX) and range does the 19ms delay of the digital Deity gives the system a chance to 'recover' un-received data packets?

Deity has the advantage over the other 2.4ghz of remote control and adding antennae for range but in this context is 4 channels going to cut it?

 

 

I imagine it would be hard to get the number of units required to do side by side density tests of the competing 2.4ghz systems. Interesting to see how the different systems interact with each other and other 2.4ghz equipment if they are to be considered resilient even over a modest range. The size of Rode system does make it very tempting to get 1 or 2 and see how limited they are.

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On 4/12/2019 at 10:40 AM, Kisaha said:

I wanted to buy into a 2.4Ghz set for some time now.

 

 

Why? What do you perceive as the advantage of 2.4GHz wireless? Other than, perhaps that no licence is needed. 

I think some features are quite cool about this system, but the 2.4GHz range of it is what I consider the biggest drawback of this system. 

 

16 hours ago, chrismedr said:

 

agreed, but unfortunately hard times for the professional sound mixer who has to feed a family since more and more people will buy a cheap mic, cheap wireless, cheap recorder etc and budgets for sound will be adjusted accordingly (wages and equipment rates).

same things happened to the camera side when the 5DmkII came to market.  

 

I don’t know. There is some validity to your argument, but looking back over the years, we were again and again at this juncture. New cheaper gear entered the market and everyone decried the end of the world as we knew it. And yet, somehow, the world has been able to sustain us and the new kids (and I was once one of those new kids myself). It’s true that rental rates could come down as a result of this, but in a way that could be fair as the cost for gear would also be lower, unless you can justify the more expensive gear to the production company, which should be possible easily enough. 

Labor rates should not come down because of cheaper gear at all. In fact, many of us only survive because of the rental income, but that is an error if the system. We should be able to get by on labor income alone. But that might just be a discussion for another thread

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2 hours ago, daniel said:

<snip>Interesting range test from A.W, Aside from logarithmic physics regarding increasing power (TX) and range does the 19ms delay of the digital Deity gives the system a chance to 'recover' un-received data packets?<snip>

I would like to have seen a range test that modeled real conditions, i.e., the transmitters mounted at the waist, behind the person. That would have given a better comparison of body absorption and shadowing. My guess (and it is a guess) is that the 2.4 GHz would be much more affected by the body than say 600 MHz. Holding transmitters out the window, line of sight, is so far removed from reality as to be almost a worthless comparison. Note, I said almost.

 

As far as delay, different kinds of error correction introduce different amounts of delay. Forward error correction (FEC) can add relatively tiny amounts of delay since correction on the current data is done by using data already received. However, interleaving of data to overcome burst errors can add significant delay since all the interleaved data must be received before the data can be reconstructed. As with all things RF, it's a compromise.

Best Regards,

Larry Fisher

 

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Any one at NAB stop by the Deity booth and check out the Connect system? Any indication of when it will be available. No updates on the website for quite a while now. 

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5 hours ago, Ed Denton said:

Any one at NAB stop by the Deity booth and check out the Connect system?

April 16 launch date. So tomorrow. Call your local dealer for stock availability I would say.

5 hours ago, Ed Denton said:

Any indication of when it will be available.

 

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L.F: "My guess (and it is a guess) is that the 2.4 GHz would be much more affected by the body than say 600 MHz. Holding transmitters out the window, line of sight, is so far removed from reality as to be almost a worthless comparison. Note, I said almost."

 

Mainly used channel 68 and 38 but my intuition is that lower frequencies go round corners (and bodies) better but maybe there's another reason in this case (if it is the case) eg. digital vs analogue?

I think there is some merit in doing a line of sight test (TX in hand) but mainly to determine the difference in performance between Line of Sight and 'real world' usage. If the performance of 1 system fluctuates less than another it would be 1 way to demonstrate something was more consistent and resilient? Lots of variables in bodies, how the belt pack and antenna are positioned and how the bodies are moving around - in A.W's case in a metal car(!).

I live in a block with a concrete stairwell and 36 flights of stairs (18 floors) and wonder if this would provide a suitably and progressively hostile environment for testing how a given RM system deals with increasing amounts of reinforced concrete and multiple pathways created by increasing the number of flat surfaces between TX and RX?

Is range reduced by density and density reduced by range in both analogue and digital system? Reducing power can increase density so a reasonable test for these new 2.4ghz systems would be to find maximum density at 10 metres and then see how far it can be extended?

Also interested to know how these 2.4 RX are impacted by something else in the bag transmitting - lots of variables there. Are digital RX less likely to be desensitised than analogue? This would effect the layout of a bag for an operator running both legacy analogue pieces (maybe for range or hops/monitors) and a cheap digital system (possibly as hops/monitors). Or in the context of A.W's test, would the Deity's more powerful digital TX impact the range of the Senny? eg. if he had switched off the Deity TX would he have got more range from the Senny?  

 

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Myself and a buddy checked them out at NAB. He clipped on the mic, I manned the bag. He walked honestly about 7 feet before multiple dropouts. I understand its NAB and there's RF everywhere BUT that's supposed to be the point of 2.4ghz auto-switching, correct? Bag was upright, TX was upright both in front and behind the wear-er. We switched and he had the same thing.

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3 hours ago, Eric Thomas Rice said:

Myself and a buddy checked them out at NAB. He clipped on the mic, I manned the bag. He walked honestly about 7 feet before multiple dropouts. I understand its NAB and there's RF everywhere BUT that's supposed to be the point of 2.4ghz auto-switching, correct? Bag was upright, TX was upright both in front and behind the wear-er. We switched and he had the same thing.

Thanks for sharing, that is too bad. It seems as Michael Wynne had a similar experience in a post that is now deleted. To be honest a G3 system might also fall short in 7 feets at Nab. But it is worrying with the 2.4 band with everything that is already crammed there on a shoot and hearing these testamonials makes me confident in staying G3/2000 a bit longer. 

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8 hours ago, Eric Thomas Rice said:
 
 
 
 
3
8 hours ago, Eric Thomas Rice said:

Myself and a buddy checked them out at NAB. He clipped on the mic, I manned the bag. He walked honestly about 7 feet before multiple dropouts. I understand its NAB and there's RF everywhere BUT that's supposed to be the point of 2.4ghz auto-switching, correct? Bag was upright, TX was upright both in front and behind the wear-er. We switched and he had the same thing.

 

 

Hey Eric, I'm not sure who you mean by "he clipped on the mic", we had 6 people working at the booth so I am not sure who gave you the demo. But I know when I gave the demo to people like Glen Trew, Chris Howland, Jeff Wexler, Jose Frias, Jared Elkin, Carlos Meada, and Eric Leek we got a minimum of 25ft and in some test, we got as much as 40ft on the expo floor.  And I encourage you or anyone else on this page to ask any of these sound mixers how their results were when they watched the demo. Glen Trew was playing with our shark fin antenna the whole test and checking out to see how directional it was and how good it was at rejecting the other 4 audio brands that also had 2.4Ghz Omni systems at their booths 10ft away across the aisle.  Jared Elkin did all of his coverage for the whole show floor and only had interference at our booth because we already had a lot of transmitters on (well above common practice.)

 

What you may have experienced was also due to the fact that the test units were open to the public to play with and change the settings. I often found that members of the public had gone and unscrewed the shark fin so the center pin on the SMA connector wasn't making contact. Also, I would find that the system was set to 10mw instead of 100mw. Given both of those setting changes, it is very possible you were getting 7ft off the internal B-ANTs at 10mw. It's also possible that during your test there were more than 4x TX units on because we were showing off 3-4 dual kits at one time at points. Also if the TX you were being shown in your demo has the same User ID as another one in the area that would also affect range as the User ID's all default back to the same name (12345) and this also acts as the encryption key. Without knowing any these variables it's hard to say that what might have given you these results. That said, I know you're in NYC, stop by Gotham Sound and ask for a demo at their shop. When I did the demo with Nick and Peter I was able to walk around the whole place short of putting 2 full metal repair shelves of gear between the TX and the RX. Honestly, stop by Gotham anyway, they are great people there and there's always something new I find on the shelves that I need to buy.

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