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Camera Hops


JonG

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Just now, Frido Beck said:

Difference is that camera department rents it for their so called pretty pictures and we rent it for something that doesn't have to do anything with sound on set actually. But it's a service for the editorial department. 

And? So with that comes a penalty or something? It is a request, no matter what. We are all in the "service" industry.

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2 minutes ago, Frido Beck said:

The stuff that production actually feels in their workflow needs to be charged accordingly. 

True that. And "accordingly" is a subjective yet related to something (purchase price) matter. That is why I pay more than 2x the price if I rent a Cantar or SD633 at NoyzBoyz...

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21 minutes ago, Frido Beck said:

But i think were flooding this thread with a different subject now though :)

I can’t say it doesn’t freak me out a little how not on the same page some of you are regarding rentals.

 

Nevertheless, this thread is about hops and TC needs, in an effort to shed some light on what people are using and what they are looking for in a more ideal system. 

 

So I urge you standers bye to chime in and share your thoughts and experience using the formula stated in posts prior to this recent detour. Thank you. 

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8 minutes ago, JonG said:

So I urge you standers bye to chime in and share your thoughts and experience using the formula stated in posts prior to this recent detour. Thank you. 

Haha fair enough 😉

Types of jobs you do:
Documentaries, Feature film, sometimes short films, even less sometimes corporate.
Camera audio will be final or reference:
Reference mostly, 2/3 times in the last couple of years old school beta-snake to ENG camera.

Mono/Stereo hop:
Mono.

Most common cameras you work with:
Alexa Mini/XT, Red Helium/Dragon. The Canon C300 and Sony Fs7 on a distance for the lower budget/documentaries. 

TC needs: 
I have a bunch of Tentacle Syncs since they came out with all the cables necessary. 
 

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I don’t know how fair it is, but I charge based on what I’ve learned from what other mixers wiser than myself charge rather than cost of timecode box. To my mind knowing how to troubleshoot stuff, having all the necessary cables, and making sure it all works is what makes it worth the rental price to the client, in addition to the sync box itself. 

 

EDIT: glad to hear other people don’t go cabled. I’ve had some clients ask for that if they don’t want to pay for a sync box, wanted to make sure I’m not out of line to tell them no.

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4 hours ago, JonG said:

I can’t say it doesn’t freak me out a little how not on the same page some of you are regarding rentals

...

So I urge you standers bye to chime in and share your thoughts and experience using the formula stated in posts prior to this recent detour. Thank you. 

 

actually it might be an idea to add another point to the original formula (which might help to get the people on the same page):

- what do you charge for your wireless hops and TC?

 

personally I certainly can't get 35EUR/day for a tentacle unit - but if someone can, lucky you!

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@chrismedr as a rental rule, most sound mixers charge what rental houses charge. The rental brochure on the LSC site is essentially a guideline for a good majority of us. When I am negotiating with production, I quote my base rate and rental, and refer to anything outside of a basic kit on an à la carte basis using their rental brochure as reference. I recommend everyone do the same as a baseline price (feel free to charge more!), that way we will all be quoting the same and no production will act surprised when they hear the numbers. At least in the US. Other countries may use rental prices from an established rental house as their own reference. Indie films are an obvious exception to the rule, but I’ve found that when issuing an itemized invoice, people rarely push back. 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Types of jobs you do:
Industrial / Corporate, Documentaries, Occasional feature film. Lots and lots of Interviews.
Camera audio will be final or reference:

I urge reference, however, very few editors in my city understand more than the basics of sound editing.

I always record dual system to give them options, and usually output scratch audio to 1 or more cameras.

Mono/Stereo hop:
Stereo if plugged in directly. Mono mixdowns (or solos) if wireless. I usually just solo my favorite track (boom or lav) instead of a full mono mixdown.

I use 2 old pair of Lectro 100's for camera hops and/or director / client monitor.

For video village I sometimes use the Lectro 100 receiver into a headphone amp (AC powered) to distribute many headphones.

I'm going to switch over to all Sennheiser G3/G4 IEM shortly....about half the price of a Zaxcom TRX/ERX system.

Most common cameras you work with:
Alexa Mini, Canon C300, Sony Fs7, Canon 5DMKII, occasionally BlackMagic 4K

Odyssey7Q pops up a lot on set too, as far as recording Timecode is concerned.

TC needs: 
In the last 10+years I have had only 2 requests for timecode! For both I just ran a BNC cable out of my recorder.

Mostly everyone here still wants a scratch track and uses pluraleyes to sync.

If requests keep happening, or if I get a gig that requires wireless TC, I'll probably get a few Tentacle Syncs or Ambient NanoLockits.

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  • 11 months later...

Types of jobs you do:
Documentaries, Shows, Films, and everything in between. A lot of day playing.


Camera audio will be final or reference:
Depends. Most of the time its just TC or guide/reference. There are gigs that I do that require broadcast quality hop.

 

Mono/Stereo hop:
Both.

 

Most common cameras you work with:
Pretty much all of them. 

 

TC needs: 
JB-1s, Zaxcom ERXs, Zaxcom rx200's.

 

Hey guys, so I have a question regarding UHF hops in a compact bag setup. I primarily use a Zax CL3 with RX200's and URX100's. This setup works fantastic in a cart or if I'm working with the K-tek bag/harness combo because I can place the CL3 TX further away from the incoming RXs. My issue is that most of the time I'm running a really compact and lightweight system that doesn't use the traditional 'sound bag' setup. I don't have a lot of room to place the UHF TX far away from my receiver antennas. Right now, I'm using the TX at 608Mhz frequency and most of my incoming RXs in the 530-550 range. I get significantly reduce range when the CL3 in the bag is on. The second I turn the CL3 TX off my incoming RX range increases dramatically.

 

Is there anything I can do to mitigate this overloading of the incoming RXs? I'm hoping that if I can remote the CL3 antenna to somewhere else in the bag will resolve the issue. I'm going to contact the Zaxcom mothership to see how I can get up to the highest legal use (614mhz?) to get more frequency separation. I'm also hoping that using more of a 'tune-able' antenna (SNA600a) could help mitigate RF spray, or a combination of all of these will allow me to use UHF hops with my compact bag. Picture is attached so you can get an idea.

 

What methods are people using to get the best range for both UHF hops and their normal 'talent' wireless?

IMG_1891.JPG

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Unless something has changed that I'm not aware of, 608-614mHz (TV Channel 37) is illegal for our use in the U.S.  

 

608-614mHz -- This band is used in the Wireless Medical Telemetry Service (WMTS) and the Radioastronomy Service. This band is allocated for both Federal and Non-Federal use.

 

As far as your desensitizing issue, have you tested putting the antenna on a remote cable to see if that would solve the issue? If you determine it does, then you can start experimenting with placement.  Getting it on a plane away from the receiving antennas would be where I would start -- below their plane or above it. I wonder if adding one of the Zaxcom filtered antennas might help -- a question for the mothership. 

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Thanks for the ideas John. I just did a quick test of remoting the SNA600a to the side of the bag and it did seem to help a lot. I'd like to minimize the spray even more but running the CL3 at 608 and shortening the SNA600s so the antenna is more in tune to the 650 marking really did make a difference. Would adding an inline filter (between TX and SNA600) help keep the RF spray within the specific TX frequency? 

 

I just looked up the frequency question and it seems you're definitely right but there's a couple of spots in the 600mhz range that we might be able to use.

 

Available frequencies following the transition

Many frequencies in the TV bands that had been available for wireless microphone use prior to the auction will continue to be available after the transition period. These include:

-VHF and UHF frequencies on TV channels 2-36, which fall below 608 MHz.

-Certain frequencies in the 600 MHz guard band: 614-616 MHz.

-Certain frequencies in the 600 MHz duplex gap: 653-657 MHz for licensed use or 657-663 MHz for unlicensed use.

 

Jon, didn't mean to hi-jack the thread, I was just thinking it's semi-related to the above!

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If i am not mistaken, doesnt the antenna filter duplicate what is currently built into the CL unit? Maybe its block specific and more narrow?

 

i have had success reducing interference significantly (but not eliminating entirely) using whip antennas by putting spacers between the CL and nova about an inch or so. Also allows airflow the CL gets hot

 

reducing output to 50 or 25 didnt seem to change much in scans so i am leaving at 100 most of the time

 

-Ken

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 I went to Lectro M2R and DCHT, small, broadcast quality audio, run on lithium AAs' all day...the pros, the cons

cannot be hit with phantom power, and a non locking mini jack! I haven't had any issues with the mini jack but I did have the unit get fried by phantom power! You've got to get phantom blocker cables! My 2cents

IMG_9717.JPG

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@jwill since I started this thread, the DCHT was released, and it really ticks a lot of boxes for me. I’d like to eventually migrate over to that system, just waiting on a few things right now. I got a chance to beta test your setup and it is really something. Question to you tho: what do you think of the levels from the M2R? I kind of felt like it was a bit low. I think about cameras like the Alexa that are line level only. I’ve never been able to get -20dB tone on an Alexa, always about -26/-28 from other hop systems I’ve tried, which isn’t the end of the world but annoying that it’s low. I like to think of myself as being very thorough, and getting low levels on cameras hurts my pride! ;)

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