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JonG

Camera Hops

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On 9/27/2018 at 11:14 PM, Dalton Patterson said:

 

 With hot shoe compatibility it is a no brainer. 

 

I recently tried a uwp-d11 on the sony pxw-z90, with the smad-p3 hot shoe adapter. Unfortunately with this combination I could not find a way to defeat the camera’s AGC, and the result was also much noisier than using the xlr inputs on the handle. There is some evidence online of others having this same problem, so try before you buy! 

 

It it may also be different with other cameras, so YMMV.

 

J

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Depending on available real estate (which is at a premium on cameras these days), I use either a Lectro SR5p or LR receiver. Network clients still rely heavily on  camera mix so it’s sr5 series for them. Commercial clients usually just want a scratch for the edit so they get the LR with Ambient tiny Lock it bongoed together, works fine. 

 

The  Wisycom ENG series is looking good I like the size of the receiver. Not sure about the Deity and 2.4ghz, I do like the fact that manufactures are starting to take our needs into consideration though. 

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To resurrect this thread, I’d like to take a pole on what your hop needs are. Please use the following format:

 

Types of jobs you do:

Camera audio will be final or reference:

Mono/Stereo hop:

Most common cameras you work with:

TC needs:

 

 

For me, I used to do a lot of broadcast/reality stuff and my stereo mix was used in the edit. Those jobs often used cameras like the HDX900, and it was common to use saddle bags with two 411s feeding the camera. Today those jobs are using Red, Alexa Mini, C300, FS7 cameras where real estate is sparse. But those jobs want a mono scratch track and TC these days. 

 

Same goes for narrative work, except that the Alexa is likely the camera of choice. Give me your thoughts and what your ideal setup would be. 

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Timely question. Drama shoot using two Alexas. They want timecode and scratch audio on both for the rushes. I'm using Ambient nanolockits, Ambient slate and Masterlockit on SD688 also for sound report. Audio is two Lectro IFBT4 (one boom, one lavs) to SRbs on cameras. Making special cable 2xTA3 to 5 pin XLR for the Alexas.

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Types of jobs you do: narrative 

Camera audio will be final or reference: scratch (if that)

Mono/Stereo hop: mono

Most common cameras you work with: Alexa

TC needs: yes, always

 

somehow on my jobs they never want scratch audio. If they did, I‘d use my Sennheiser IEM gear, with the same mix I‘m broadcasting around the set anyway. 

I have all the Lectro gear ready for a proper hop, but they don’t want it. Which is a shame really, because now that I‘ve got the gear, I really want to play with it...

at most they‘d ask for something for instant playback, but that’s it

 

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I've got a sneaking suspicion that Lectrosonics is going to make a "bag hop stereo transmitter" using their "Duet" technology.  I remember people asking if that was going to be the case considering they've only released the half rack transmitter and I think it was a patented Lectrosonics Tumbleweed™ response when inquired upon.

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Types of jobs you do:

Camera audio will be final or reference:

Mono/Stereo hop:

Most common cameras you work with:

TC needs:

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A majority of my work these days is on documentary and news magazines shows like 60 minutes.

Primary audio is almost always taken from the camera (usually Sony F5, F55, Cannon C300, VariCam).

For sit down interviews I'm always hardwired to the cameras (usually 3 to 4 cameras per interview). When we aren't tied down I'm using a Zaxcom hop. Which consists of the wideband camera link transmitter and several RX200 receivers - 1 per camera. The rx200 will output 2 channels of audio and time code on a single carrier. The rx200 is small lightweight and will run all day on a set of lithium AA batteries. 

I also always record a backup of the camera feed in the camera link. The backup recording is primarily used for transcription - I will use zaxconvert to convert the files to mp3 - but they can also be converted to BWAV files if needed.

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On 9/28/2018 at 3:50 AM, hiro nakamura said:

Sony UWP D11 for hops, and IFB monitoring as well. Two AA, 12 -15hours running time. Not even bother to turn them off in the middle of the shoot. If it’s Fs7 or even A7s, their Sony hotshoe could go cable-less on cameras. 

 And I could swap them around for hops and listening. 

Which battery are you using with the UWPs?

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Hey Jack, for your news magazine stuff do they really request two channels of sound on EVERY camera? Seems like massive overkill and just plain laziness on their part. But if they’re paying for all those receivers that’s great. 

 

When I have a multi camera interview I typically run a snake to the primary camera and then just single XLRs to the others if possible/practical. Or a G3 on DSLRs or smaller secondary cameras if they’re mix and matching. Usually they don’t have specific requests. 

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I think it comes down to redundancy for the networks. I’ve worked on Dateline, 20/20, Sunday Morning, etc, for almost 20 years. They have always requested all cameras in a multi cam interview get audio. It may be that their editors are working on multiple projects with immediate deadlines, and don’t have the time to sync audio with picture. They do request the .wav backups now. I have had a situation where we shot on a DSLR a few years ago for an nbc feature doc and the editor did use my .wav files. 

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All my work, narrative, doc, reality, commercial, etc. Want a mono mix to the primary camera at minimum, sometimes they want audio to all cameras, and TC on all cameras. I haven’t worked on a show that was going to actually use the camera audio in years, and haven’t been asked for a stereo mix of any kind in just as long.  It seems like most ENG type work I do is being shot on “cinema” cameras, and I’m guessing that post has begun to figure out that re syncing audio isn’t as time consuming as they assumed it was. 

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Non-broadcast, for web etc mostly here.  Double system+TC (if the cam will take it)+ mono ref feed, nearly always wireless.  Many shoots are now maybe 1 "real" camera (Arri etc) with all of the above, and one or a few more of the Sony A7s type with ref track only.  A TC slate often, but not always.  No one wants to bother to try to set the A7s code to something close to master TC.  Multitrack pre-fade iso audio expected, esp if more than 2 channels are in play.  The only time "hero audio from camera tracks" enters the discussion is when time from shoot to presentation is very short, and even then most DITs are so fast with TC autosync that they go that way anyhow (esp if I have a lot of wild tracks, or I'm rolling through while camera stops or reloads etc.).  This seems to be the pref for complex jobs with lots of crews, since the DIT is setting up their footage database.  Having them gather, check, note and account for all assets as we go seems like a good idea. 

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22 hours ago, Derek H said:

Hey Jack, for your news magazine stuff do they really request two channels of sound on EVERY camera? Seems like massive overkill and just plain laziness on their part. But if they’re paying for all those receivers that’s great. 

Yes.

Yes.

And yes!

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ypes of jobs you do: corporate/scripted/broadcast

Camera audio will be final or reference: reference mostly, final sometimes

Mono/Stereo hop: mono.

Most common cameras you work with: Ursa/Alexa/Eos/Sony

TC needs: preferable but not often specified.

 

Crazy fantasist probably, but I've been thinking the TC board of a tentacle/moze/TCB UB could fit inside a AA battery eliminator and still leave room for a 3.7 li-on battery to power both RX and TC - use smart phone to set parameters and lots and lots of G3 (and similar) RX can get repurposed. If the client doesn't want audio the device should work as a stand alone with a cold shoe accessory etc.

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I use a Sennheiser G3 for a mono scratch track.

Sync box on camera. Some clients like the slate as well. Slate mandatory without TC input. 

 

If they want master audio to camera a Lectrosonics D4 for a hop. 

Plus a sync box (and record just in case).

 

Plug in for interviews.

 

Usual cameras:

Cannon c-300

red

Sony fs7

Sony F55

 

 

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Types of jobs you do:Mostly Multi-camera interview/ Documentary/ Sports Features/ News Magazine/ Some Network News

Camera audio will be final or reference: Camera just reference. I use LR on camera 

Mono/Stereo hop: Mono 95% of the time

Most common cameras you work with: Amira/ Alexa Mini/ Sony F55/ C-300

TC needs: Use Betso TCX-2 on every camera

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I have a CL3 and 3 RX200s. And I have 2 modded ERX2TCDs I generally just use as lockits. Everything I work on is generally TC synced and if they pay for it I’ll provide a full UHF Stereo Hop. But in general I always provide at least a mono scratch feed and/or TC. And then provide Wavs for post to sync if wanted/needed. 

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Types of jobs you do: Documentary and Corporate

Camera audio will be final or reference: almost always reference 

Mono/Stereo hop: Mono Sennheiser G3 RX and/or G3 IEM

Most common cameras you work with: Sony FS7, Panasonic EVA1, Canon C300

TC needs: sync boxes if run and gun

 

I use the Sennheiser IEMs as my IFBs as well as hops, which is great because I've only got one transmitter in the bag for both. 

 

Curious if others here offer cabled TC if a client doesn't want to pay for sync boxes, if cameras will be locked off. 

 

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@Rifthead the G3/IEM setup certainly is clever. Regarding hard wired TC, I’d guess that most here would do a courtesy jam if client doesn’t want to pay for a lockit but I highly doubt anyone would be willing to lay down cable for a cheapskate client. I could be wrong. Opinions?

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3 hours ago, JonG said:

@Rifthead the G3/IEM setup certainly is clever. Regarding hard wired TC, I’d guess that most here would do a courtesy jam if client doesn’t want to pay for a lockit but I highly doubt anyone would be willing to lay down cable for a cheapskate client. I could be wrong. Opinions?

 

agreed. having a bunch or long TC cables made (that people step on and trip over) does sound both, more expensive and inconvenient then buying one of the low cost TC boxes (which most people have already anyway).

besides if we take the equipment cost /100 per day rental, a tentacle would come in at 2.50, or lets say 4.00 - if that's too expensive for a client on a dual system job then you probably have bigger problems.

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18 hours ago, Rifthead said:

 

Curious if others here offer cabled TC if a client doesn't want to pay for sync boxes, if cameras will be locked off. 

 

No!!! They pay for "Timecode On Camera". They pay to sync easy and fast ("The Goal") It actually doesn't have to do anything with the timecode box itself ("The Method")

6 hours ago, chrismedr said:

 

besides if we take the equipment cost /100 per day rental, a tentacle would come in at 2.50, or lets say 4.00 - if that's too expensive for a client on a dual system job then you probably have bigger problems.

 

It should be more - it doesn't have to do with the price of the timecode box itself. The service and extra work and extra risk (it's on a camera and not in your hands) that's why 1% works for a boompole (or less) but not for a timecode box or anything else that's given out to other people.

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20 minutes ago, Frido Beck said:

The service and extra work and extra risk

What service and extra work? You jam it and slap it on. done till, lets say, a re-jam at lunch. Extra risk? If they brake it they pay for damage. IMO, purchase price is always a starting point for rental price, as is with every industry out there, I do rent a Mercedes for much more than a Kia, or lets say a scooter. But that is a discussion we had a million times here on the forum....

 

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