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JonG

Camera Hops

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16 minutes ago, Vincent R. said:

What service and extra work? You jam it and slap it on. done till, lets say, a re-jam at lunch. Extra risk? If they brake it they pay for damage. IMO, purchase price is always a starting point for rental price, as is with every industry out there, I do rent a Mercedes for much more than a Kia, or lets say a scooter. But that is a discussion we had a million times here on the forum....

 

Everyone their own business practice but I'm not renting my UltraSync ONE's for €4 a day. If they can pay for more camera's they can pay for more timecode on camera's and possible wireless reference tracks. And about the 'extra risk' - ofcourse if they destroy it it's on them but I'm not going to check everytime if there's a different scratch or spot on the gear and charge for that. Over time that all adds up but if it still works I can't put it on them personally. Some of My Sennheiser IEM's have scratches on them so lower resale value and just uglier to look at for me in general as the new looking one's. But they work perfectly. Am I going to charge them for that? No, that's why I charge €35 per IEM with headphone and rechargable batteries.

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Just now, Frido Beck said:

Everyone their own business practice but I'm not renting my UltraSync ONE's for €4 a day. If they can pay for more camera's they can pay for more timecode on camera's and possible wireless reference tracks.

Sure, 4$ is low, make it a 10-er or something with all the cables, and good for you if you can get 50$ obviously. I was merely referring to the purchase/rental ratio (whatever that may be in the region) as mentioned before. The camera department gets a mattebox for a couple of $$, which is the same kinda percentage deal of a purchase price.  

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5 minutes ago, Vincent R. said:

Sure, 4$ is low, make it a 10-er or something with all the cables, and good for you if you can get 50$ obviously. I was merely referring to the purchase/rental ratio (whatever that may be in the region) as mentioned before. The camera department gets a mattebox for a couple of $$, which is the same kinda percentage deal of a purchase price.  

Difference is that camera department rents it for their so called pretty pictures and we rent it for something that doesn't have to do anything with sound on set actually. But it's a service for the editorial department. I get €35 per timecode on camera and €30 for wireless timecode option here in Netherlands (wireless updating timecode for multicamera and commercial projects)

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Just now, Frido Beck said:

Difference is that camera department rents it for their so called pretty pictures and we rent it for something that doesn't have to do anything with sound on set actually. But it's a service for the editorial department. 

And? So with that comes a penalty or something? It is a request, no matter what. We are all in the "service" industry.

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1 minute ago, Vincent R. said:

And? So with that comes a penalty or something? It is a request, no matter what. We are all in the "service" industry.

There's so much gear we can't specifically charge for like special colored cables and an extra shockmount or new sound bag. The stuff that production actually feels in their workflow needs to be charged accordingly. 

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2 minutes ago, Frido Beck said:

The stuff that production actually feels in their workflow needs to be charged accordingly. 

True that. And "accordingly" is a subjective yet related to something (purchase price) matter. That is why I pay more than 2x the price if I rent a Cantar or SD633 at NoyzBoyz...

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6 minutes ago, Vincent R. said:

True that. And "accordingly" is a subjective yet related to something (purchase price) matter. That is why I pay more than 2x the price if I rent a Cantar or SD633 at NoyzBoyz...

Yeah ok you're right on that 😛 the prices are weird though. A cantar is 4-5x the price of a 633. Should be €200 for a cantar or atleast 150. NB actually dropped the prices on wireless too... :( But i think were flooding this thread with a different subject now though :)

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21 minutes ago, Frido Beck said:

But i think were flooding this thread with a different subject now though :)

I can’t say it doesn’t freak me out a little how not on the same page some of you are regarding rentals.

 

Nevertheless, this thread is about hops and TC needs, in an effort to shed some light on what people are using and what they are looking for in a more ideal system. 

 

So I urge you standers bye to chime in and share your thoughts and experience using the formula stated in posts prior to this recent detour. Thank you. 

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8 minutes ago, JonG said:

So I urge you standers bye to chime in and share your thoughts and experience using the formula stated in posts prior to this recent detour. Thank you. 

Haha fair enough 😉

Types of jobs you do:
Documentaries, Feature film, sometimes short films, even less sometimes corporate.
Camera audio will be final or reference:
Reference mostly, 2/3 times in the last couple of years old school beta-snake to ENG camera.

Mono/Stereo hop:
Mono.

Most common cameras you work with:
Alexa Mini/XT, Red Helium/Dragon. The Canon C300 and Sony Fs7 on a distance for the lower budget/documentaries. 

TC needs: 
I have a bunch of Tentacle Syncs since they came out with all the cables necessary. 
 

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:) 

 

 

Types of jobs you do: Commercial Productions (Corporate Video, Commercials, Branded Docs, Branded (Multicamera) Reality)

Camera audio will be final or reference: Reference

Mono/Stereo hop: Mono (Sennheiser EK100 or EK300 IEM both SMA modded with straight or RA antenna depending on the position on the camera)

Most common cameras you work with: Sony FS7

TC: 3x Timecode Systems UltraSync ONE for on Cameras and 1x UltraSync ONE as TC transmitter. Zaxcom QRX235 sends Timecode to the Zaxcom Transmitters

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I don’t know how fair it is, but I charge based on what I’ve learned from what other mixers wiser than myself charge rather than cost of timecode box. To my mind knowing how to troubleshoot stuff, having all the necessary cables, and making sure it all works is what makes it worth the rental price to the client, in addition to the sync box itself. 

 

EDIT: glad to hear other people don’t go cabled. I’ve had some clients ask for that if they don’t want to pay for a sync box, wanted to make sure I’m not out of line to tell them no.

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4 hours ago, JonG said:

I can’t say it doesn’t freak me out a little how not on the same page some of you are regarding rentals

...

So I urge you standers bye to chime in and share your thoughts and experience using the formula stated in posts prior to this recent detour. Thank you. 

 

actually it might be an idea to add another point to the original formula (which might help to get the people on the same page):

- what do you charge for your wireless hops and TC?

 

personally I certainly can't get 35EUR/day for a tentacle unit - but if someone can, lucky you!

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@chrismedr as a rental rule, most sound mixers charge what rental houses charge. The rental brochure on the LSC site is essentially a guideline for a good majority of us. When I am negotiating with production, I quote my base rate and rental, and refer to anything outside of a basic kit on an à la carte basis using their rental brochure as reference. I recommend everyone do the same as a baseline price (feel free to charge more!), that way we will all be quoting the same and no production will act surprised when they hear the numbers. At least in the US. Other countries may use rental prices from an established rental house as their own reference. Indie films are an obvious exception to the rule, but I’ve found that when issuing an itemized invoice, people rarely push back. 

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