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Jakobk

Zaxcom Nomad timecode delay

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It is not really an issue but i just wanted to ask you fellow nomad users if you have it the same or if it is a issue with mine...

 

I had some problems with my tentacles not taking timecode accurately so i double checked timecode by conneting them to the tc in on my nomad to compare with the generator. When i had them synced correctly i thought ok, one frame off is probably the best i get but then i connected the nomad tc out to the input and still had the one frame difference.

So i guess it is the display, right?

 

I tried to find something in the settings where you could set a tc offset but didn't find any.

 

Is your nomad behaving the same?

 

The picture showing the tc out connected to the in with a short bnc cable. I tried it with several tc devices from tentacle and ambient and always had the one frame off...

PSX_20181031_204640.jpg

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The nomad time code display is not a piece of test equipment and can not show you what you are looking for. Nomad TC inputs and outputs are subframe accurate. The display when running is not.

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Is there a way to fix this? It hasn't have to be accurate but at least be able to show the correct tc, no?

If its like this on every Nomad it should be easy.. If you don't know that its the display one would think their tc-box is one frame late...

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Virtually every timecode reader in existence "takes a frame" to read the code, and thus is one frame behind the input.

Some readers can "decrement" the count to compensate for this, Denecke slates can do this, but most readers I've

encountered do not.  It sounds like your gear is fine.  We strive to have things within 1 frame of sync in location work.

More accurate than that requires genlock, cabling and a lot of other stuff no one wants to deal with on location anymore.

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3 hours ago, Jakobk said:

...

If you don't know that its the display one would think their tc-box is one frame late...

 

I'm "one" and I don't think this.

 

LCD screens are known to exhibit display lag.  

 

If you want to compare time codes, the right tool for the job is something like a Denecke GR-2 which can resolve differences between its generator and an external source down to a tiny fraction of a frame. 

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Hi Jak, I think the best way to do this test, is to use the slate that is inside the Nomad. That display would be accurate if you used it properly. If you are not familiar with it, then you could read the Nomad manual at dinner.

Thank you, Martin

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"That display would be accurate if you used it properly."

 

Martin the Mixer, please inform us of the proper way to  use the Nomads display, I tend to skip dinner.

 

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Hello, The 2 different displays shown in the picture could vary for a couple of reasons. The one reason is that the display only indicates one frame. In other words, if the difference between those 2, which is one feeding the other, could only be 1/1000 of a frame, but we can't see that because the display does not read to the 1000th, so if one is at 20:46:26:21.999 and the other is at 20:46:26:22.0 , then the difference would only be 1/1000 of a frame difference, also known as  .000041 seconds. We are all not looking at the Nomad display, we are looking at a picture of the display, so  now you add another element to the "problem", LCD refresh rates. What shutter speed did he use to take the picture? If you took enough pictures, you would see the frames number blurred, but that doesn't mean the time code frame is blurred, it's just a display. The easiest test for this, I believe, is to just simply test this with the slate function in the Nomad. You could also test this, with the proper camera shutter speed, by using 2 Denecke slates and look at the picture that results. I say Denecke, because I have no idea what any other manufacturer has for display indications. But I do know this test will work on a Denecke.

 

1 hour ago, Constantin said:

If it’s display latency why isn’t it late for both TCs shown above in the picture?

 

Now, if Glenn could just build us a timecode display that read to the 1/1000 of a frame. But, that would likely create more problems, because a user could look at the 2 displays and say "Hey, my time code is off by  6/1000ths of a frame."

 

Thank you, Martin

 

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4 hours ago, al mcguire said:

"That display would be accurate if you used it properly."

 

Martin the Mixer, please inform us of the proper way to  use the Nomads display, I tend to skip dinner.

 

Per the manual. I guess I should cut and paste the manual? 

Edited by MartinTheMixer
Clarification

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My method is the one in the manual. I'm not sure where your going with this. It's pretty simple, reading the manual is easy to follow. I don't know why you would want me, or anyone, to simply repeat what is in the manual. I can paste a link to the manual and reference the pages, if you need it. 

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This was your statement  "That display would be accurate if you used it properly."

I am asking you, not the manual, please explain your statement.

What is the proper way to use the display ?

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3 hours ago, al mcguire said:

This was your statement  "That display would be accurate if you used it properly."

I am asking you, not the manual, please explain your statement.

What is the proper way to use the display ?

Which display are you referring to?

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2 hours ago, al mcguire said:

Screen Shot 2018-11-06 at 5.37.28 AM.png

Ok, great. Now we have clarified what you want to know about that is in the manual. As some on this site could verify, I don't have any problem getting on the phone to help someone get thru understanding how something works, everyone needs that at some point. But I don't think that is what your looking for here. I'm not sure what your doing. I will cut and paste the paragraph in the manual that deals with using the slate inside the Zaxcom Nomad. The answer of how I use it is in the paragraph attached.

 

20181106_071129.jpg

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On 11/5/2018 at 2:52 PM, MartinTheMixer said:

Now, if Glenn could just build us a timecode display that read to the 1/1000 of a frame. But, that would likely create more problems, because a user could look at the 2 displays and say "Hey, my time code is off by  6/1000ths of a frame."

 

Yes that would be cool, but it also wouldn’t be necessary, only the tc reader would need to be accurate enough and display any discrepancies between both tc streams as such.  A simple tc comparisons option would also be nice. Such as the one on the 633...

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5 minutes ago, MartinTheMixer said:

Constantin, Sorry, I don't have a 633 to try. What is the  Sound Devices 633 doing that the Zaxcom Nomad is not doing? 

Thanks, Martin

 

I don’t know if Nomad is doing this, too, but the 633 has a TC comparison where it compares an incoming tc to the internal one and shows the difference in frames 

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Ah, I see. When would you normally use that information? I use all Zaxcom, so I personally can't think of when that would be useful, but, I am all Zaxcom, so that is not something I believe I could benefit from.

 

Thanks.

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5 minutes ago, MartinTheMixer said:

Ah, I see. When would you normally use that information? I use all Zaxcom, so I personally can't think of when that would be useful, but, I am all Zaxcom, so that is not something I believe I could benefit from.

 

Thanks.

 

The usefulness of this function is not dependent on the manufacturer. I believe if you read this thread there already is a good reason for this, hence my bringing it up. Generally to troubleshoot, I suspect. Personally, I never use it, though. Might be because I don’t use a 633 and my timecode devices have not had issues yet

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The nomad time code display is not a piece of test equipment and can not show you what you are looking for. Nomad TC inputs and outputs are subframe accurate. The display when running is not.

Glenn Sanders

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12 minutes ago, al mcguire said:

The nomad time code display is not a piece of test equipment and can not show you what you are looking for. Nomad TC inputs and outputs are subframe accurate. The display when running is not.

Glenn Sanders

I have no idea what this has to do with the Nomad slate function. Re-pasting what Glenn said about the  Nomad time code display has what to do with the Nomad slate function? 

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