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alidav

long shotgun on a dslr

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I am aware of the sacrilegious question, but we dont have other choise, we need to shoot in an operating room, and no other person but the video operator is allowed, no equipment place here and there, only on man with dslr on a jimbal. we need to capture a decent dialogue of doctors operating a 2 meters. 
any suggestion for a good mic for a dslr.? 

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well, in interiors a long shotgun is often not the best choice (specially in rooms with reverb), you might want to consider a short shotgun or super cardioid.

that will also be easier for the gimbal.

I'd usually try a MKH50 or maybe the new Sanken CS-M1 but you'll have to deal with an extra power supply or audio recorder since DSLRs usually don't have phantom. 

If you don't want to do that, then you're left with mics with plug-in power or built-in battery, like Rode Videomics or Sennheisers MKE-400. small and convenient but they will obviously not sound as good.

chris

 

PS: wireless is probably not an option because of RF interference but you ask if they are OK with a Lav and small pocket recorder on the doctors.

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I have recorded a couple of real surgeries in the last years. It's so loud in the operating room (vents, AC, pumps, beeps ...) that no boom would deliver any useable audio. Anyway, it's too dangerous because sterile parts can come in touch with the boom by accident.

 

I attached lavs with little wind jammer to the doctors' shirt BEFORE they were put on their sterile covers. So I had a good "clean" sound, the wind jammer eliminated rubbing noise quite good. I did it very safely because sometimes the surgeons sweated heavily.

Another good place was on the forehead unter the surgical cap.

 

The main problem is that there is no opportunity to touch the mikes when operation is in progress - due to hygiene.

You have to be sure who's to be lav'd and who not. Some of them don't talk at all ... anasthesist says something but not much ...

Maybe the sound person can place the recorder outside the operating room if range allows.

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All of the above being said the new Sanken CS-M1 is perfect for DSLR mounting. There is a cold shoe mount for it also. It has the reach you need, is short enough not to be seen in the shot and sounds amazing. Main issue is that it requires 48vp for power

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The mic on the camera is going to yield audio that will require subtitling--a modern operating room is a very noisy place, and plenty of the dialog will be delivered by people not facing the camera in any case.  Camera pans to nurse, so does camera mounted shotgun, doctor answers nurse, now WAY off mic, and so on.  If the filmmakers are serious about audio then they need to wire the medical folks up.  There are ways to transmit to a receiver-recorder outside of the room, possibly including either a remote antenna in the room, high-power TX as well as Zax-style transmitter-recorders.  All of this has been done successfully over the years, but the filmmakers have to understand that that the doing of this will not be simple cheap or easy.  The situation is somewhat analogous to concert shooting: for camera, they can just walk in rolling and all can be well.  For audio the situation is a far more complex undertaking that requires research, coordination with the locals, special equipment and setup time.

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I’ve boomed a surgery. Schoeps 41, Sounded great. Just make sure the foam is on tight and get approval from the lead surgeon. They’re the boss of the room. 

 

I found lavs mounted under the heavy paper surgical gown sounded like shit. In the cap sounded great but you have to take great care with the wire down the back of the neck. He’s right you can’t touch anyone after they’re scrubbed in. 

 

Camera mic only only will be tough but yes good enough to subtitle from. 

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My experience of shooting during medical procedures that involved "open wound" type surgery was that booms were not permitted, and I was not permitted to move freely around the OR during the procedure.  Your experience may differ but I've found that doctors and hospitals are very uptight about this kind of thing any more.  I've done fine with mics under and over gowns, you have to be careful.    In a doc there is no real reason to hide a lav mic anyhow, just be very careful how you rig it and make sure the staff knows it is sterile.   My own recent procedures have all been in rooms in which the noise of the equipment made normal speech difficult, so I'd advise having lavs as your primary mic technique.

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40 minutes ago, Philip Perkins said:

  In a doc there is no real reason to hide a lav mic 

 

Expose the Lav and if you have one primary doctor who is doing most of the talking I would suggest double micing him to cover yourself.

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1. I don't like the idea of Wireless RF in the room. Period. 

2. If I found out there was an untrained person in the operating room of a loved one I would not take kindly to the idea. 

3. I'm not trying to be gloomy, but after sitting for 3 days listening to internal issues surrounding hospitals, infections and the newest disinfection robots. Even on hospitals best days, stuff can go wrong. 

4. Unless you go through all the same disinfection procedures as the surgeons and nurses your opening your self up to liability. Even if you do everything perfectly there is still risk of transmitting infection. 

5. Imagine a Tattoo parlor, the tattooist goes through painstaking measures to ensure his tattoo station is disinfected and all his equipment is clean/sterile. ( Maybe ask a tattoo artist about the basics?) 

16 hours ago, Philip Perkins said:

just be very careful how you rig it and make sure the staff knows it is sterile.

a. Clean LAV mics and seal them in ( UA sample jar? It's sanitized.) Ask nurse what a UA sample jar is. Cleaning solution will sterilize mic capsule. 

b. I say use waterproof cell phone bags for wireless TX that are disinfected/airtight/sealed when you go into the room.

c. Ask for additional funds to cover sterile equipment and  preparation. 

d. Think of all the one-time use tools that doctors use during surgery. Then throw away the whole tray. 

e. Use all new transpore tape, stickies, scissors, batteries, velcro, EVERYTHING. 

f. Only enter the OR with approved items. 

 

 

-I suggest use a short shotgun, doesn't matter which, as it will only be used for subtitles. 

-Throw 2 or 3 pocket Zoom recorders around the room in disinfected sealed waterproof bags. Just to CYA. Maybe get Doc to wear one in pocket. ( think police body cam). 

 

Dang this sounds like a fun gig. 

 

If you want to place a LAV mic on the surgeon, he would have to really be on board and willing to compromise. I doubt you could get him to give up the extra 5-10 minutes to Mic him up properly for surgery. I've yet to meet a doctor that fits that description. They fly to their own clocks ( in a good way). 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A little bit of background story on Hospitals and lawsuits. This is from my own backyard. 

 

"Comedian Dana Carvey sues cardiac surgeon for $7.5 million; settles for undisclosed amount" 

Dana Carvey Surgery went wrong

 

 

 

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There is no reason to avoid using wireless in an OR if you do your diligence with the hospital.  There is plenty of RF in there already I assure you, and when presented as an alternative to having a sound person actually in the room will probably be what all parties will agree to, with the appropriate sterilzation cautions.  Equipment is shuttled in and out of ORs all the time, they know how to do it and can help you treat your gear as well.  The #1 factor in all of this is early and complete research, communication and permissions.  There will be some procedures, no matter how minor, that someone involved will refuse to allow shot and recorded.  On the other hand, I have worked full open-chest heart surgeries with many wireless and plant mics in play and since all parties were down with the filming it went very well.

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Two months ago I was asked buy a surgeon and his internal A/V people at a large teaching hospital to record the skin graft procedure for a burn victim. Removing skin from the leg and grafting it onto the back of his wrist and hand. It was to be used for an upcoming symposium. We're not talking open heart surgery here. I had to go through a two-week prior-to-surgery screening for health and possible contagions. I passed. The surgeon and I settled on him wearing a wireless lav (I do a lot of work for this hospital on non-surgical procedures so I was able to gain access to the OR ahead of time and test the RF splatter). I would shoot with my Sony FS7, one wireless lav and one camera mounted hyper-cardioid (the room had reverb). The surgeon signed off on my scheme and the patient had to sign a consent form. I was good to go.

 

Even though I would remain outside the sterile field, I would be about 8 ft. away from the patient, I arrived two hours before the procedure to scrub down all my gear and setup. While setting up in the OR I was told the head surgical nurse needed to see me. She told me I hadn't completed an immunization form. So I filled one out. Upon seeing that I hadn't had the Hepatitis-B vaccination she called a halt to the project and booted my out.

 

While I was removing my gear I saw the surgeon and explained the FUBAR. He was disappointed but said the head surgical nurse runs the floor and we have to abide by what she says. I of course didn't want to pose a health risk to the patient. Project cancelled because I didn't have the one immunization.

 

My take-away... despite what you and your surgical team agree upon get the head surgical nurse to sign off on you and your plans before the day of surgery.

 

Good luck.

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Filmed a few ops (facial and chest). My take outs were:

1. Lavs on cap or mask work well.

2. Boom was permitted in the procedures we filmed.

3. Diathermy caused drop outs on my Sennheiser G2000 but not an old Sony (front end filters?)

4. If speakers are wearing face masks then it's not really lipsync.

5. Theres a big light right above most of what's going on, as a back up this could be good for a small spot mic like a lav feeding a TX or HH recorder.

6. The anaesthetist is the 1 with the jokes but ask them not to play the music.

 

If you really can't have more than a camera top mic then go wide not long (eg MKH40 or 50 not a 60). Something like a Tascam DR10X would allow you to use a phantom powered mic even if the camera doesn't (use HP O/P to feed camera). Another option would be a consumer stereo mic (rode etc) if phantom power is not available for a MKH50 etc. 

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