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PSA MKH 416 on eBay

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Im not going to make any accusations, but please use your due diligence when looking at 

the Sennheiser 416s sold by these sellers:

 w3power.hk

and

vpower.hk8

 

Something looks way off.

First hint: the low price

Pictures will show more!!

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Fake 416s have been coming out of China for years. All I can say is that if you’re gullible enough to buy one, you deserve it. I was always taught to research anything and everything so that I wasn’t asking stupid questions or making grave purchasing mistakes. 

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5 hours ago, JonG said:

All I can say is that if you’re gullible enough to buy one, you deserve it.

Yup, the existence of fake 416 mics has been well known for a long time now. 

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29 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

"The fake sounds miles better than the noisy 416 wannabe Aputure DIety. Those guys could learn a thing or two from our counterfeit friends. Much simpler design, too."

lol!

Yeah the first Aputure Deity is indeed a noisy mic. the revision (s-Mic 2) is completely different.

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10 hours ago, Vincent R. said:

Yeah the first Aputure Deity is indeed a noisy mic. the revision (s-Mic 2) is completely different.


I have both, and I can completely agree. The original was more like for a videographer/student/danger mic. While the revised one is much better. 

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2 hours ago, IronFilm said:


I have both, and I can completely agree. The original was more like for a videographer/student/danger mic. While the revised one is much better. 

I remember all the youtube crowd and e-reviews going nuts about how great the first one was, and what a huge bargain it was vs the real deal, when the reality was far from that and it was audible from anyone with a set of ears. Also, the widern patern was characterizing as "less forgiving", as the 416 was "punishing" you for choosing it..

 

I remember you pushing it a lot to people (!) also, while I was always suggesting other alternatives from Rode/Sennheiser/AT e.t.c

 

I do not know how the second performs, but I do know Aputure has its way with youtubers and "influencers" and seems like in this new era, that's all that it counts to sell well.

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You can buy cheap and get inferior products, which seems to be what the e-reviewers and DIY guys are all about. But for professional work, just get the real thing. You will be happy you did, and $800-$1000 for a genuine 416 that’ll last you your entire career is money well spent. 

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I'd still put the original Deity shotgun as a better pick than say a NTG2 which was priced similar, but the new revision makes it a proper competitor to the 416

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7 hours ago, IronFilm said:

I'd still put the original Deity shotgun as a better pick than say a NTG2 which was priced similar, but the new revision makes it a proper competitor to the 416

 

It was near 400€ in Europe. Competing with the NTG3 really, which is a vastly superior mic. It came down to price only after the 2 came out.

 

Right now is 332€ and the 2 is 379. All these prices are mic only, and if you do the € to NZ$ you will find out that they are "very" expensive microphones, for what they are.

 

Officially, from the Aputure shop is still, almost, double the price of an NTG2 - which I dislike anyway -  and more expensive than a NTG4, and similar money to MKE600, which again, is a much better product.

 

How it is a competitor? The only thing they share is the shape!

 

They are completely different products.

 

Just my 2cents, but my point was how youtubers and influencers are shaping the market these days, while so much knowledge here, is only for the few initiated ones.

 

It should be a JWS committee to respond to various sound myths that appear from time to time with youtube videos!

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Fun fact: I recently purchased a NTG3 (four of them actually!). 
I'll try to get a comparison video of them all up on YouTube (oh noes, not the YouTubes!) soon.

 

3 hours ago, Kisaha said:

Competing with the NTG3 really, which is a vastly superior mic. It came down to price only after the 2 came out.

 

The Deity S Mic 2 is literally HALF the price of the NTG3 at B&H, that is a massive price difference for anybody starting out and considering those two mics. 

 

3 hours ago, Kisaha said:

Officially, from the Aputure shop is still, almost, double the price of an NTG2 - which I dislike anyway -  and more expensive than a NTG4, and similar money to MKE600, which again, is a much better product.


Aputure store says the Aputure Deity is $279, and B&H says the NTG2 is $269

Close enough for me to call them the "same price" more or less. 

 

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for me all these "cheap" microphones only really make sense for no-budget filmmaking (or maybe for a solo shooter just starting out).

for anything that involves professional crew, time and money, just get the real thing. they are more reliable and sound better and last forever. and if you're really broke you can rent one for like 10-15EUR a day (for the one piece of tech kit which probably makes the biggest different in sound quality).

chris

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2 hours ago, chrismedr said:

for me all these "cheap" microphones only really make sense for no-budget filmmaking (or maybe for a solo shooter just starting out).

for anything that involves professional crew, time and money, just get the real thing. they are more reliable and sound better and last forever. and if you're really broke you can rent one for like 10-15EUR a day (for the one piece of tech kit which probably makes the biggest different in sound quality).

chris

You are right. I would say, from a western perspective. There is also another world out there; I live 50% of the time in Turkey and they are "screaming" for lower cost yet still acceptable gear, since the market/economy/circumstances are way different than In Europe for example. 

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1 hour ago, Vincent R. said:

You are right. I would say, from a western perspective. There is also another world out there; I live 50% of the time in Turkey and they are "screaming" for lower cost yet still acceptable gear, since the market/economy/circumstances are way different than In Europe for example. 

Turkey is one of the biggest drama (both literally and in TV productions) exporters in the whole world and the 5th army, so they must have spending power.l, just not everyone has to be a sound person.

 

@IronFilm B&H is not a pricing standard for us Europeans.

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1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

Turkey is one of the biggest drama (both literally and in TV productions) exporters in the whole world and the 5th army, so they must have spending power.l, just not everyone has to be a sound person

And your point is? A boom operator on one of those famous drama shows gets €40/50 a day. Talk to sound house/person here and you will hear the struggle. Some even go under. Not claiming that cheap gear is the way to go, that's not the point. For perspective, a Lectrosonics wireless kit is about a half year teacher's salary here. 

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4 hours ago, Vincent R. said:

You are right. I would say, from a western perspective. There is also another world out there; 

 

point taken, and my apologies - of course the situation is different in other places.

out of real interest: what is a typical camera package on those projects? like 5DMKII, Canon C300, or RED?

I'm asking because it seems to me that often project are willing to rent a 100'000 camera package and still argue about a 1000 mic.

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58 minutes ago, chrismedr said:

 

point taken, and my apologies - of course the situation is different in other places.

out of real interest: what is a typical camera package on those projects? like 5DMKII, Canon C300, or RED?

I'm asking because it seems to me that often project are willing to rent a 100'000 camera package and still argue about a 1000 mic.

About all Alexa. But the system is a bit different; because of the already mentioned big TV drama industry here, production companies purchase and write the camera kit off in about a year. So from there on its "free" and go out as rental in the off periods for a very very low price. You can get a Alexa easier in Istanbul than a can of Cherry Coke. They are the no. 1 or 2 buyer of Alexas in the world, lots of 1 serial numbers here as an reward from Arri.

Oh so and the difference is that (sound department) gear is NOT part usually of the inhouse equipment, so that doesn't "benefit" from the quick write-off. Mostly freelance or actual location sound companies with staff are hired per project.

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5 hours ago, Vincent R. said:

And your point is? A boom operator on one of those famous drama shows gets €40/50 a day. Talk to sound house/person here and you will hear the struggle. Some even go under. Not claiming that cheap gear is the way to go, that's not the point. For perspective, a Lectrosonics wireless kit is about a half year teacher's salary here. 

Young boomem here are earning less than that, and I was earning even less when I started a couple of decades ago, but my first mic was a 416.

 

We are talking about huge productions, I doubt even one of those uses a Deity...

 

Even 50€ per day multiplied by a whole season of a TV season is serious money in Turkey, the prices for food and rent are a lot less than most (or all?) EU countries. 

 

Now, if you are a 18 years old from an Anatolia village, filming your Kangal dogs, then yes, even the Deity will be too much, but that applies to everyone, all over the world..

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26 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

Even 50€ per day multiplied by a whole season of a TV season is serious money in Turkey, the prices for food and rent are a lot less than most (or all?) EU countries

Sorry but you are talking out of your *ss on all 3 accounts;

1. In the end the seasons are scattered and a big summer downtime. Also we are not talking about "starters" these are just the rates 2. Food is as expensive as Europe due to shortage and high importance taxes (follow the news, I pay pound for pound sometimes more for potatoes and cheese in Turkey than when I am in the Netherlands 3. Rental is equal and even index wise higher since the complete TV/film sector is based in Istanbul; I pay about as much rent in Istanbul than I pay in the Netherlands, where I have the option to live outside crazy places like Amsterdam.

 

Clearly your opinion is what it is, your opinion, I'm talking about what's really going on, whilst working in Turkey. Or are you living here as well?

 

If the common talk about sound mixers here in Istanbul is that it's getting very very difficult to get quilty gear due to high pricing/shitty lira/extra taxes, and that they are happy that there is some lower cost yet OK alternatives out there, I can take one conclusion. That's what I intended with my remark to Chris before. Not to start a debate with somebody who gives an opinion about some facts... Also I didn't mention Deity, I said lower cost but acceptable gear. No brand names named.

 

Oh and just a note, fortunately I am not affected by all this, since most of the times I work for foreign productions shooting in turkey.

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I don’t know how to solve economic problems in countries that want to make film productions but don’t want to pay for it. It seems to me that you guys should be charging more. But what do I know? I don’t live in your country or understand it’s economy. What I do know is that if your sound mixers are doing what the rest of us are, which is charging for our labor, and charging for the equipment that we supply, I feel like standard rates based on the cost of equipment should be upheld, since that is how we price our kit fees. For me, the jobs that I do can’t justify the expense of a Cantar X3 and 16 sets of Lectros. But I do quite well with my 633 and limited number of wireless. My clients have no problem paying the going rate in my market. 

 

This is applicable for productions with budgets. If you are mainly referring to indie productions, then no one here can help you because the people that make the rules on those are people trying to get more than they can afford, and if you are supplying them with everything they want but are not able to pay for, then it sounds like a problem on your end. Maybe these indie producers need to evaluate their budgets based on rentals. They may save a lot on their camera rental in the off season, but that does not apply to sound. Maybe you need to educate them by negotiating better. 

 

But again, this is me speculating without knowin any of the facts. Either way, cheaper more affordable equipment is not the answer because all that will do is allow more people who probably shouldn’t be getting into this industry to do so, which will only devalue all of our work, and make rates go down. 

 

If a hobbyist wants to buy buy a cheap mic, let them. But if you want to consider yourself as a professional, and do professional work, you need professional equipment, and that costs money. 

 

Most of of us here probably got our first 416 used, and there are deals to be had there. I always recommend buying quality products that will last rather than cheap products that you will eventually replace. 

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@JonG a difficult topic for sure, thanks for the modesty because indeed It is easy to scream from another country how things should be done. 

I hear you on the "cheaper gear is not the answer", it's sometimes a necessity, at least to get started. By cheap I mean not crap, a first generation Apature Deity wouldn't sell, for example. I'm talking in therms of the SD mixpre series/zoom8, a local manufacturer making (sound wise competing with DPA) lav mics, a NTG3 which helds perfectly fine against a 416, things like that. Every penny counts sometimes, especially if you know it will take longer to earn it back.

If a currency of a country goes down the drain, but still you have to get the stuff from abroad, it can go fast. And then the purchase/rental ratio is the first what goes as a standard. I can go from one side of the country to the other (2.5 hour flight) for like 20$, but the plane is still a boeing (another example, for illustration purposes). 

 

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8 hours ago, Vincent R. said:

About all Alexa. But the system is a bit different; because of the already mentioned big TV drama industry here, production companies purchase and write the camera kit off in about a year. So from there on its "free" and go out as rental in the off periods for a very very low price. You can get a Alexa easier in Istanbul than a can of Cherry Coke. They are the no. 1 or 2 buyer of Alexas in the world, lots of 1 serial numbers here as an reward from Arri.

Oh so and the difference is that (sound department) gear is NOT part usually of the inhouse equipment, so that doesn't "benefit" from the quick write-off. Mostly freelance or actual location sound companies with staff are hired per project.


Oh dear god, that sounds like all kinds of fucked up fuckkery!! :-o 

Why can't sound mixers also structure their business to quickly write off against taxes their sound gear purchases like gets done with the camera departments' Alexas and all their other fancy expensive thingymabobs? 

Doesn't sound fair at all!

5 hours ago, Vincent R. said:

I'm talking about what's really going on, whilst working in Turkey.

Am curious as to why you spend part of your time working in Turkey rather than just 100% of your time in Netherlands? Is it to be nearer family in Turkey some of the time or such reasons like that?

5 hours ago, Vincent R. said:

Oh and just a note, fortunately I am not affected by all this, since most of the times I work for foreign productions shooting in turkey.

Ahhhhhh........

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5 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Am curious as to why you spend part of your time working in Turkey rather than just 100% of your time in Netherlands? Is it to be nearer family in Turkey some of the time or such reasons like that?

My wife is Turkish, so we live there. It's a great city/country, except the political bullshitery. 

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