thenannymoh Posted March 6, 2019 Report Share Posted March 6, 2019 Looking for some practical advice and insight... I own a Sennheiser 8060 and I use this fairly often, particularly for outdoors but also for wides indoors when my MKH50 won't quite reach. I've always struggled to find a suitable indoor shockmount that I like: the mic has a long front end, is very sensitive to swings, and all this makes finding adequate indoor 'wind' protection a challenge. The best solution so far has been the Bubblebee Windkiller, but even with the Sennheiser MZF8000 filter capsule, the fit isn't quite right and either the sound is coloured too much or there is some noise created. I have MacGyver'd a shockmount using Rycote lyres to try to accomodate the Bubblebee, but it still gives me hassles. So I called Trew to discuss options, and the Cinela Cosi came up in the discussion. Despite the price, I'm pretty enamored with the design. Turns out, there is a new COSI designed for the 8060, with its 19mm diameter and peculiar length BUT it won't work with a MZF8000 filter attached. Now, this filter is almost universally used by 8060 users...I like the gentle high pass filter by often I really like the -10 db pad (for when actors feel it necessary to scream). Turns out that Cinela didn't design for the MZF filter because they don't like it...from their COSI pdf notice: Quote "RUMBLE FILTERING As any other suspension/windshield, COSI needs the use of a good rumble filter (Very low end handling noise). Typically 50/70 Hz with a +18dB/oct slope (3rd order filter) Many mixers/recorders only offers +12dB/oct filters (2nd order). Then it may be a little compromise. +6dB/oct filters are AVOIDED (1st order). Many microphones are very rich in the Low End (MKH8000 or DPA with C preamp). These ones need a high slope filter. Schoeps MiniCMIT offers a very convenient in-built +24dB/oct filter (4th order) ! Definitely the best against handling rumbles ! Absolutely no need for any other filter ! Best choice for "uncertain" inputs (cameras, DSLR)." Quote Unfortunately the MZF will not fit...The MKH8060, without XLR module (i.e. using the special connector), is really the max length possible in COSI-L !ANyway, the MZF is not...the best filter ! Only 6dB/oct...I hardly recommend to find a proper filter solution externally. (look at the COSI notice) My typical setup for this mic is to connect it to my Lectrosonics HM on the end of the boom, and record onto my 633. My (perhaps incorrect) understanding was that if I applied the HP filter at the mic, there would be more efficiency for my Lectrosonics (ie saving battery power), and that I could apply futher HP on my 633 on the fly if the circumstances warranted. That's how I've been doing it for dialogue work (not environment and sound effects). But the info and notice from Cinela have me second-guessing things a bit. I can use the HP filter on the Lectro plug and not bother with the MZF8000, but there are times when that -10 pad is very useful (and when I need it, there is not usually time to switch out mic housings). And maybe I haven't been applying my HP filters in the most effective manner. At times like this, I miss the granular filter setting of my old 744t. Anyone else gone down this rabbit hole with this gear, or have any suggestions as to what I should do? Are the benefits of the COSI worth it in this case, or should I be looking at another product to mount my 8060 with? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGraham045 Posted March 6, 2019 Report Share Posted March 6, 2019 I use an 8060 almost daily... and for me the MZF8000 filter is a must... I generally just use a Rycote super softie and in a blimp I use a Rycote WS3... The super softie still give me access to the filter when needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek H Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 Rycote tacit or Schoeps barrel cut filter in line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 3 hours ago, Derek H said: Rycote tacit or Schoeps barrel cut filter in line. The Tacit is pretty (or very) susceptible to rfi, although I‘m not sure I ever tried it with the HM. Also, discontinued Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Woodcock Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 Yea the tac!t just dosent work well enough, to much rf interference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cineli Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 @thenannymoh Let me add some points... Few months ago, I had the chance to test a prototype made by Sennheiser. It was a +18dB/oct version (third order) of the MZF. Really good ! I don't know why they didn't came up with such a very nice improved version. I hardly recommend everyone to put a hard pressure to Sennheiser to make it !! I'm not sure that the MZF, in its current version, is "almost universally" used because of its perfect quality. I can only imagine that it is used because...nothing else do exists. Unlike many microphones, that integrate a real "rumble" filter (low freq, high slope), sometimes "hidden", the 8000 serie doesn't have any filter at all. The new COSI technique (patent pending) implies a limited length, and limited size in general, waiting for possible improvments... The limited length has not been choosen to avoid the use of the MZF. I was initially sceptical to integrate the 8060 in COSI, but I finally found a way using the special Sennheiser connector, plus an adaptation piece. And yes, the need for a "external" filter is there...as usual ! P.Chenevez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenannymoh Posted March 7, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 3 hours ago, cineli said: @thenannymoh Let me add some points... Few months ago, I had the chance to test a prototype made by Sennheiser. It was a +18dB/oct version (third order) of the MZF. Really good ! I don't know why they didn't came up with such a very nice improved version. I hardly recommend everyone to put a hard pressure to Sennheiser to make it !! I'm not sure that the MZF, in its current version, is "almost universally" used because of its perfect quality. I can only imagine that it is used because...nothing else do exists. Unlike many microphones, that integrate a real "rumble" filter (low freq, high slope), sometimes "hidden", the 8000 serie doesn't have any filter at all. The new COSI technique (patent pending) implies a limited length, and limited size in general, waiting for possible improvments... The limited length has not been choosen to avoid the use of the MZF. I was initially sceptical to integrate the 8060 in COSI, but I finally found a way using the special Sennheiser connector, plus an adaptation piece. And yes, the need for a "external" filter is there...as usual ! P.Chenevez Thanks for the information and explanation. A +18dB/oct version would be great to have, I hope the prototype you tested also had the -10 pad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Woodcock Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 Really need this to be made Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben B Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 11 hours ago, Constantin said: The Tacit is pretty (or very) susceptible to rfi, although I‘m not sure I ever tried it with the HM. Also, discontinued 9 hours ago, Chris Woodcock said: Yea the tac!t just dosent work well enough, to much rf interference. I can second that! Tried it with my HM and it's just unusable... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek H Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 I’m sure they’ll have it available just as soon as they get the 8030 done.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Visser Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 Is it too long because of the filter + XLR module? Rycote makes an 8000 to XLR pigtail. (sorry for the B&H link, first place to find a photo) Otherwise, Sennheiser makes MZL extension cables, unfortunately they are all way too long for practical use, but perhaps someone can make a custom shorter pigtail in which case you can remotely mount the filter a few inches away. Personally I've just relied on the filters in a transmitter or my hard wired preamps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthias Richter Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 On 3/7/2019 at 10:27 AM, cineli said: @thenannymoh Let me add some points... Few months ago, I had the chance to test a prototype made by Sennheiser. It was a +18dB/oct version (third order) of the MZF. Really good ! I don't know why they didn't came up with such a very nice improved version. I hardly recommend everyone to put a hard pressure to Sennheiser to make it !! P.Chenevez I know a German Sound Mixer got this 18dB Version made for himself by Sennheiser. If enough mixers get back to Sennheiser then we might get it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Deakin Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 Can existing mzf800s be modified in any way?? Is the 18db different physically? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthias Richter Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 I‘m waiting for a reply to get a source at Sennheiser. He got his filters modified 5 years ago. Will get in touch with Sennheiser and report back then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Katzman Posted March 14, 2019 Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 On 3/8/2019 at 11:18 AM, Matthias Richter said: I‘m waiting for a reply to get a source at Sennheiser. He got his filters modified 5 years ago. Will get in touch with Sennheiser and report back then. Yes omg please do. An 18dB/8ve cut with pad would be amazingly useful. Hopefully it’s at a lower corner frequency too (60-80Hz) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cineli Posted March 21, 2019 Report Share Posted March 21, 2019 I just had this information from Sennheiser. A "custom" version of the MZF, +18dB/oct @70Hz can be ordered with the reference CU0335 ! Can you believe that ? Let's check ! Everyone is invited to order that reference...and we'll see ! It will not be helpful for the 8060 in COSI (that would be a too long microphone for COSI), but will be perfect for MKH8040/8050 in COSI-M-19 (Medium size cage). Let's see... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Woodcock Posted March 22, 2019 Report Share Posted March 22, 2019 19 hours ago, cineli said: I just had this information from Sennheiser. A "custom" version of the MZF, +18dB/oct @70Hz can be ordered with the reference CU0335 ! Can you believe that ? Let's check ! Everyone is invited to order that reference...and we'll see ! It will not be helpful for the 8060 in COSI (that would be a too long microphone for COSI), but will be perfect for MKH8040/8050 in COSI-M-19 (Medium size cage). Let's see... Who did you speak to about this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cineli Posted March 22, 2019 Report Share Posted March 22, 2019 3 hours ago, Chris Woodcock said: Who did you speak to about this? Sennheiser France. One of our commercial contact. He ordered two units from Sennheiser Germany. Good luck ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenannymoh Posted March 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2019 1 hour ago, cineli said: Sennheiser France. One of our commercial contact. He ordered two units from Sennheiser Germany. Good luck ! Audio Services Corporation (Canada) is taking orders for the custom MZF, yay! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Deakin Posted March 22, 2019 Report Share Posted March 22, 2019 Can existing ones be modified? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek H Posted March 22, 2019 Report Share Posted March 22, 2019 Would the OSIX 1 or 2 work well for an 8050 + MZF + XLR module? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cineli Posted March 23, 2019 Report Share Posted March 23, 2019 @Glen I suspect it will not be possible...but you can ask Senheiser ! @Derek Yes, the 8050+MZF+XLR is 103mm long so it will nicely fit an OSIX-1 or E-OSIX-7 version. The 19mm diameter leads to make a simple but specific adaptation. We have so many references... Simply order the reference OSIX-1(8050+MZF) or E-OSIX-7(8050+MZF) and you'll get the right unit ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthias Richter Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 just got off the phone with Kortwich-Berlin. They could offer the custom version of the MZF8000 if there is enough demand. Sennheiser wants to sell a batch of 50 units. How many are here that would like to buy that filter? Price should be just a bit north of the standard price Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Visser Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 If they could add an M-S capsule into that “filter” too, I’d be interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Lindsay Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 I’d buy one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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