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thenannymoh

Cinela Cosi for 8060, high-pass filter quandry

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Looking for some practical advice and insight...

 

I own a Sennheiser 8060 and I use this fairly often, particularly for outdoors but also for wides indoors when my MKH50 won't quite reach.  I've always struggled to find a suitable indoor shockmount that I like: the mic has a long front end, is very sensitive to swings, and all this makes finding adequate indoor 'wind' protection a challenge.  The best solution so far has been the Bubblebee Windkiller, but even with the Sennheiser MZF8000 filter capsule, the fit isn't quite right and either the sound is coloured too much or there is some noise created.  I have MacGyver'd a shockmount using Rycote lyres to try to accomodate the Bubblebee, but it still gives me hassles.

 

So I called Trew to discuss options, and the Cinela Cosi came up in the discussion.  Despite the price, I'm pretty enamored with the design.  Turns out, there is a new COSI designed for the 8060, with its 19mm diameter and peculiar length BUT it won't work with a MZF8000 filter attached.  Now, this filter is almost universally used by 8060 users...I like the gentle high pass filter by often I really like the -10 db pad (for when actors feel it necessary to scream).   Turns out that Cinela didn't design for the MZF filter because they don't like it...from their COSI pdf notice:

Quote

"RUMBLE FILTERING
As any other suspension/windshield, COSI needs the use of a good rumble filter (Very low end
handling noise). Typically 50/70 Hz with a +18dB/oct slope (3rd order filter)
Many mixers/recorders only offers +12dB/oct filters (2nd order). Then it may be a little compromise.
+6dB/oct filters are AVOIDED (1st order).
Many microphones are very rich in the Low End (MKH8000 or DPA with C preamp). These ones
need a high slope filter.
Schoeps MiniCMIT offers a very convenient in-built +24dB/oct filter (4th order) !
Definitely the best against handling rumbles ! Absolutely no need for any other filter ! Best choice
for "uncertain" inputs (cameras, DSLR)."

Quote

Unfortunately the MZF will not fit...
The MKH8060, without XLR module (i.e. using the special connector), is 
really the max length possible in COSI-L !

ANyway, the MZF is not...the best filter ! Only 6dB/oct...
I hardly recommend to find a proper filter solution externally. (look at 
the COSI notice)

 

 

My typical setup for this mic is to connect it to my Lectrosonics HM on the end of the boom, and record onto my 633.  My (perhaps incorrect) understanding was that if I applied the HP filter at the mic, there would be more efficiency for my Lectrosonics (ie saving battery power), and that I could apply futher HP on my 633 on the fly if the circumstances warranted.  That's how I've been doing it for dialogue work (not environment and sound effects).

 

But the info and notice from Cinela have me second-guessing things a bit.  I can use the HP filter on the Lectro plug and not bother with the MZF8000, but there are times when that -10 pad is very useful (and when I need it, there is not usually time to switch out mic housings).  And maybe I haven't been applying my HP filters in the most effective manner.  At times like this, I miss the granular filter setting of my old 744t.

 

Anyone else gone down this rabbit hole with this gear, or have any suggestions as to what I should do?  Are the benefits of the COSI worth it in this case, or should I be looking at another product to mount my 8060 with?

 

Thanks!

 

 

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I use an 8060 almost daily... and for me the MZF8000 filter is a must... I generally just use a Rycote super softie and in a blimp I use a Rycote WS3... The super softie still give me access to the filter when needed.

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3 hours ago, Derek H said:

Rycote tacit or Schoeps barrel cut filter in line. 

 

The Tacit is pretty (or very) susceptible to rfi, although I‘m not sure I ever tried it with the HM. Also, discontinued 

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@thenannymoh

Let me add some points...

Few months ago, I had the chance to test a prototype made by Sennheiser. It was a +18dB/oct version (third order) of the MZF. Really good ! I don't know why they didn't came up with such a very nice improved version. I hardly recommend everyone to put a hard pressure to Sennheiser to make it !!

 

I'm not sure that the MZF, in its current version, is "almost universally" used because of its perfect quality. I can only imagine that it is used because...nothing else do exists. Unlike many microphones, that integrate a real "rumble" filter (low freq, high slope), sometimes "hidden", the 8000 serie doesn't have any filter at all.

 

The new COSI technique (patent pending) implies a limited length, and limited size in general, waiting for possible improvments... The limited length has not been choosen to avoid the use of the MZF. I was initially sceptical to integrate the 8060 in COSI, but I finally found a way using the special Sennheiser connector, plus an adaptation piece. And yes, the need for a "external" filter is there...as usual !

P.Chenevez

 

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3 hours ago, cineli said:

@thenannymoh

Let me add some points...

Few months ago, I had the chance to test a prototype made by Sennheiser. It was a +18dB/oct version (third order) of the MZF. Really good ! I don't know why they didn't came up with such a very nice improved version. I hardly recommend everyone to put a hard pressure to Sennheiser to make it !!

 

I'm not sure that the MZF, in its current version, is "almost universally" used because of its perfect quality. I can only imagine that it is used because...nothing else do exists. Unlike many microphones, that integrate a real "rumble" filter (low freq, high slope), sometimes "hidden", the 8000 serie doesn't have any filter at all.

 

The new COSI technique (patent pending) implies a limited length, and limited size in general, waiting for possible improvments... The limited length has not been choosen to avoid the use of the MZF. I was initially sceptical to integrate the 8060 in COSI, but I finally found a way using the special Sennheiser connector, plus an adaptation piece. And yes, the need for a "external" filter is there...as usual !

P.Chenevez

 

 

Thanks for the information and explanation.  A +18dB/oct version would be great to have, I hope the prototype you tested also had the -10 pad.

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11 hours ago, Constantin said:

 

The Tacit is pretty (or very) susceptible to rfi, although I‘m not sure I ever tried it with the HM. Also, discontinued 

 

9 hours ago, Chris Woodcock said:

Yea the tac!t just dosent work well enough, to much rf interference.

I can second that! Tried it with my HM and it's just unusable...

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Is it too long because of the filter + XLR module?  Rycote makes an 8000 to XLR pigtail.  (sorry for the B&H link, first place to find a photo)

rycote_17032_cyclone_mzl_cable_146349849

Otherwise, Sennheiser makes MZL extension cables, unfortunately they are all way too long for practical use, but perhaps someone can make a custom shorter pigtail in which case you can remotely mount the filter a few inches away.  Personally I've just relied on the filters in a transmitter or my hard wired preamps.

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On 3/7/2019 at 10:27 AM, cineli said:

@thenannymoh

Let me add some points...

Few months ago, I had the chance to test a prototype made by Sennheiser. It was a +18dB/oct version (third order) of the MZF. Really good ! I don't know why they didn't came up with such a very nice improved version. I hardly recommend everyone to put a hard pressure to Sennheiser to make it !!

 

P.Chenevez

 

I know a German Sound Mixer got this 18dB Version made for himself by Sennheiser. If enough mixers get back to Sennheiser then we might get it!

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On 3/8/2019 at 11:18 AM, Matthias Richter said:

I‘m waiting for a reply to get a source at Sennheiser. He got his filters modified 5 years ago. Will get in touch with Sennheiser and report back then.

Yes omg please do. An 18dB/8ve cut with pad would be amazingly useful. Hopefully it’s at a lower corner frequency too (60-80Hz)

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