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raidopedak

Sennheiser G4 - 112P vs 512P?

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I'm a camera / video guy. Every now and then I have an interview or a corporate shoot where I have to work solo, and that includes the sound.

I have been using the Rodelink wireless lav kits for a few years now and I feel like it's time for an upgrade. I've been looking at the workhorse Sennheiser G4, which would fit my use case perfectly. However, I find it a little hard to decide the configuration - I know I definitely don't want to use the ME-2 lav.

I am trying to decide between these options:

1. G4 512P with the MKE-2 microphone - around 700-800€
This would get me a decent microphone and a better wireless pack, and it's more cost-effective!

2. G4 112P, ditch the ME-2, and get a DPA 4060 separately - 850€+
This configuration costs more, but the DPA is excellent.

Now, my question is, whether the DPA 4060 is that much better than the MKE-2 to justify the price difference. I feel like the 512P kit is a better deal but I'm not sure. I've heard that the MKE2 is quite robust and would withstand some abuse, but it's also more difficult to hide. The wireless kit is secondary, however the 500 series sounds like a good bonus over the 100 series.

Feedback is greatly appreciated, and let me know if my question is stupid :)

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The main difference between the 500 series vs the 100, is the fact that the 500 has 50mw TX power, vs the 30 mw max of the 100 series. The MKE2 mic is just a "bonus"deal with the kit. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Glen Deakin said:

Think of the included lav mic as a gift to make the kit complete

That said, the MKE2 is considerable better than the ME2 which comes with the 100 kit

.

 

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It depends (lol):

 

Do you think you will ever upgrade to a pro wireless system in the near future? No? Then buy the better one right away -> 512p

Are you going to hide your lavs a lot? Yes? -> DPA 4060/6060

Are you going to be close to the person being interviewed most of the time, or is range a critical factor?

 

If I knew I was going to upgrade to a pro wireless system at some point, I would go with the 112P + DPA 4060 now. Keep the 4060 and ditch the 112P later .

If I knew that, for what I'm doing, the G4s are perfectly fine, I would go with the 512P + MKE-2 and upgrade to the 4060 later, if I felt something was missing.

 

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Wouldn't go for either of mic capsules you've put forward - I've used Sanken Cos-11 with Lectrosonic, Audio ltd, Sony and Sennheiser TX. Versatile over and under clothing, easy to mount and hide. Lots of accessories and robust. More popular the Sennheiser capsules and 50/50 with DPA imho.

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Go 500 series. the 50mw as I mentioned before will give you better range. that should be the focus first, you get distracted by the microphone into your equation; yes it is important, but transmitter wise the 100/500 series are not equal. 

 

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2 hours ago, Vincent R. said:

Go 500 series. the 50mw as I mentioned before will give you better range. that should be the focus first, you get distracted by the microphone into your equation; yes it is important, but transmitter wise the 100/500 series are not equal. 

 

Assuming on corporate solo shoot the receiver is usually in the same room and within a few meters of the transmitter...

It seems to me that in those conditions a better quality mic (DPA4060/COS-11/MKE-2 over ME-2) would improve the quality significantly while the transmitter power (50mW over 30mW) wouldn't really make a difference. I'm far from an expert in this field, but I once tested a G3 with exactly these four lavs and I won't use the ME-2 anymore if I can avoid it somehow (sounded pretty bad in comparison).

chris

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Little question a bit off topic, is it worth upgrading a 100 transmitter to a 500 without upgrading the receiver? Or do you only get the advantage of the 500 if you upgrade the receiver as well.

Thanks for your in put.

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12 minutes ago, chrismedr said:

 

Assuming on corporate solo shoot the receiver is usually in the same room and within a few meters of the transmitter...

It seems to me that in those conditions a better quality mic (DPA4060/COS-11/MKE-2 over ME-2) would improve the quality significantly while the transmitter power (50mW over 30mW) wouldn't really make a difference. I'm far from an expert in this field, but I once tested a G3 with exactly these four lavs and I won't use the ME-2 anymore if I can avoid it somehow (sounded pretty bad in comparison).

chris

Fair enough. I would say both. I just get the impression topic started assumed they are equal besides the stock lav Vs mke2.

11 minutes ago, Allowire said:

Little question a bit off topic, is it worth upgrading a 100 transmitter to a 500 without upgrading the receiver? Or do you only get the advantage of the 500 if you upgrade the receiver as well.

Thanks for your in put.

That will work. Another benefit of the 500 series is that it is wide band. So if you combine that with the 100 series, you only can receive half of the available Freq. that the 500 can transmit. But it will work. 

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If you haven't seen it, this video from Gotham Sound goes over the differences between the 100 and 500 series G4s (as well as the sound of the MKE2 lav)

 

 

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If distance is not a big thing to you. 112P wireless kit with DPA lav makes great combo. Plus you have an extra ME2 lav for back up cod it is included in the package. 

 

Hiro

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On 3/11/2019 at 6:22 PM, OnTheSoundSideOfLife said:

If I knew that, for what I'm doing, the G4s are perfectly fine, I would go with the 512P + MKE-2 and upgrade to the 4060 later, if I felt something was missing.

My focus is more on camera work and audio is a bonus that I can offer. So I don't have a plan to go full pro audio wise, at least not in the nearest future. When I have more demanding projects, I definitely bring in a separate sound person.
 

On 3/11/2019 at 7:23 PM, Vincent R. said:

Go 500 series. the 50mw as I mentioned before will give you better range. that should be the focus first, you get distracted by the microphone into your equation; yes it is important, but transmitter wise the 100/500 series are not equal. 

 

I do record some stand-up comedy gigs occasionally, some performers want a lavalier as backup. The range could come in handy in a stage situation. And yep, the MKE2 that comes with the 500 is definitely not a bad mic.
 

On 3/11/2019 at 6:28 PM, daniel said:

Wouldn't go for either of mic capsules you've put forward - I've used Sanken Cos-11 with Lectrosonic, Audio ltd, Sony and Sennheiser TX. Versatile over and under clothing, easy to mount and hide. Lots of accessories and robust. More popular the Sennheiser capsules and 50/50 with DPA imho.

Hmm, I have heard good things of the Sanken as well, however I rarely see it on sets here. It seems that DPA has conquered the market around here. Hmm, I had the impression that the Cos-11 would be difficult to hide, since the capsule is quite long but that's good to know!

Thanks for the good advice everyone!
I gave it some thought and I think my choice will be a combo:

I'll get the 512P kit first with the decent MKE2
and I will add a 100 series later this year with a great mic like the DPA or Cos-11

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6 minutes ago, raidopedak said:

I had the impression that the Cos-11 would be difficult to hide

Cos 11 is one of the easiest mics to hide. it is the diameter what counts, and if i am correct, it's even smaller in diameter than the dpa 4060 or mke2, but it doesn't matter, they are all easy to hide.

 

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On 3/12/2019 at 3:01 AM, raidopedak said:

I have been using the Rodelink wireless lav kits for a few years now and I feel like it's time for an upgrade. I've been looking at the workhorse Sennheiser G4, which would fit my use case perfectly. However, I find it a little hard to decide the configuration - I know I definitely don't want to use the ME-2 lav.


If you're very price conscious then I'd suggest the best option under $1K/channel is a Sony UWP-D11 with OST lav upgrades, especially a good idea if you're a cameraman who uses Sony cameras. 

Also another option is to wait just a few more weeks and see if the new Deity Connect is worth a look. 

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On 3/11/2019 at 10:47 AM, raidopedak said:

Thank you! My confidence in the MKE2 is growing.
My question in short:

112P + DPA 4060   or   512P + MKE-2 ?

I actually have both the 112P and the 51P series. From my point of view, I've always found ME-2 much more difficult to hide because of it's bulky head. That's why I'm getting rid of them. In it's place, I bought the Countryman B3 which you should also consider, it is an affordable mic, plus water resistant and it just sounds great. As for MKE-2, as I mentioned before, it is much easier to hide and sounds much better than the mid grade ME-2.

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You have to listen to the mics yourself and base you purchase choice on the result. 

For me personally, if I don’t like the sound of what I‘m hearing, I won’t care about range anymore, so my preference would always be the 112p transmitter with the DPA (or your personal favorite) mic. There is more to improving range than just boosting the rf power. I use the 112p as an IEM transmitter frequently and am often surprised at how great the range actually is. 

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10 hours ago, Constantin said:

You have to listen to the mics yourself and base you purchase choice on the result. 

For me personally, if I don’t like the sound of what I‘m hearing, I won’t care about range anymore, so my preference would always be the 112p transmitter with the DPA (or your personal favorite) mic. There is more to improving range than just boosting the rf power. I use the 112p as an IEM transmitter frequently and am often surprised at how great the range actually is. 

Could you elaborate on how to get the most range out of a sk100 transmitter? I have a few of them but I found a Sk2000 to be much more reliable in terms of range, I thought it was simply a matter of RF power.

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1 hour ago, Mattias Larsen said:

Could you elaborate on how to get the most range out of a sk100 transmitter? I have a few of them but I found a Sk2000 to be much more reliable in terms of range, I thought it was simply a matter of RF power.

Changing out the stock antenna for an SMA one, with a proper tuned antenna, to start with (https://wavreport.com/2016/10/27/sennheiser-g2g3-sma-mod/). And being careful with intermodulation if using multiple receivers next to each other (but that's with every system something to coordinate). 

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Yes, the antenna sma mod is one way, but I‘ve never actually done that. 

The best, easiest, and cheapest way to improve range is to move the receiver and/or transmitter higher up, above people‘s heads. Also, if you’re getting occasional dropouts, just move your own position slightly. If you’re working out of the bag, try to change the arrangement in your bag and see if that helps any. Keep transmitters away from receivers, check for interference from your recorder and other devices, do a proper scan beforehand, coordinate your frequencies, and so on. 

I didn’t say that the 112p will be on par with the 2000 or 500, but the sound of the DPA will beat everything else. So if it is an either/or situation for you, my recommendation is clear. No point in having great reception if what you receive sounds like crap. 

And yes, you can turn that around and argue that there is no point in having a great mic if you won’t receive it. But that’s not going to be the case with the 112p. You‘ll get by just fine with it as so many others have done before. 

Here it‘s very common on many many TV formats (none of them of any discernible quality, I ahould add). 

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Thanks for the input Vincent and Constantin. I might have a go at doing the SMA mod in the future (the mod to add 2 antennas looks interesting as well). 

 

I am trying my best to incorporate most of the things that is mentioned. Sometimes adjusting the bag or simply hold it up helps with dropouts. 

 

As for the OP, I don't have any direct experience with the MKE2 (alltho I heard good things about it) but run my G3s with DPA4060s or Tram. My first choice is the 4060, it sounds amazing and I will get a pair more when I have money for it to use it with every channel of wireless when the wardrobe allows for it. 

 

That said, I sometimes find the sk100 a bit prone to drop outs, so if you will ever shoot anything not directly line of sight it may be worth considering spending a bit more on a 500 set or get a Sk2000 second hand to have the peace of mind. 

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