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Mrs Maisel


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On 3/27/2019 at 11:43 PM, Prahlad Strickland said:

Just watching Mrs Maisel on amazon...

In the day of Zaxcom and Neverclip,  it's surprising to still hear the old distorted voice tracks.   Zaxcom TX 👌I could see a day where productions require Zaxcom unless other manufacturers follow suite with Dual converters. 

 

This really lights up my bullshit meter (no really, I‘ve got one). Many many great movies and series and shows have been produced with wireless systems that are not Zaxcom. Most of them without any distortion. Especially on a show like this, if there is any distortion the  mixer would have heard it and just ask for another take. 

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Can someone explain me what Neverclip actually is?

And, while you're at it, why is all 24 bits sound so loud? (I mean, recorded at about final level. Practical in Avid as the clip gain only goes up to 12 (that must be a Spinal Tap decision), but totally not needed I would think...)

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4 minutes ago, Bouke said:

Can someone explain me what Neverclip actually is?

 

It‘s a dual a-d converter, weighted to different dynamic ranges so both only work at their ideal dynamic range. Both combined result in a higher overall dynamic range, although if I remember  correctly, for Zax lav transmitters it’s „only“ 120dB or so. 

Don‘t think I understand the second half of your question 

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For the second part:

24 bits has a dynamic range (in theory) of 144 dB

A human voice has a dynamic range (also in theory, and between whispering and extreme yelling) of some 100 dB. (And I take it in drama you know when to expect yelling, other genres might be more difficult.)

Why don't you all keep some 25 dB headroom while recording? (If you don't have channels to spare to record the same tracks X dB lower.)

 

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24 bits allow for a dynamic range of 144dB, as you state, however there are no a/d converters (except one that I know of) that would be capable of that. And that includes the Neverclip system. So it makes sense somewhat to gain up the signal to a healthy level so as to stay away from any system noise by as much as possible. Since it is scripted it’s also easy enough to gain fairly hot without engaging the limiter. 

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This I don't get. System noise is system noise. No matter how you put it in the bytes, not?

So basically you are telling me you can hear the difference between the a signal recorded at -34 and gained in post by 25 dB and the same signal recorded at -9?

 

That I find hard to believe, (from a technical point of view based on the 24 bits) and want to see in a phase reverse test (yes, see, I like numbers and pictures :-).

Assuming of course the limiters are off, as the -9 otherwise definitely will be different.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Bouke said:

This I don't get. System noise is system noise. No matter how you put it in the bytes, not?

So basically you are telling me you can hear the difference between the a signal recorded at -34 and gained in post by 25 dB and the same signal recorded at -9?

 

That I find hard to believe, (from a technical point of view based on the 24 bits) and want to see in a phase reverse test (yes, see, I like numbers and pictures :-).

Assuming of course the limiters are off, as the -9 otherwise definitely will be different.

 

 

It is been discussed here on the forum like 7 years ago already, you read that? 

 

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3 hours ago, Bouke said:

This I don't get. System noise is system noise. No matter how you put it in the bytes, not?

 

 

Where the system noise is a fixed value,  increasing the „distance“ in dB from the noise floor to the desired signal in the analog domain will increase the signal-to-noise ratio. Once digitized it’s true that applying gain won’t change the noise floor anymore as the noise will just be gained up as well. 

On the other hand, applying too much gain will also bring up the noise from the preamp, so a good balance needs to be found. 

 

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13 hours ago, Constantin said:

 

This really lights up my bullshit meter (no really, I‘ve got one). Many many great movies and series and shows have been produced with wireless systems that are not Zaxcom. Most of them without any distortion. Especially on a show like this, if there is any distortion the  mixer would have heard it and just ask for another take. 

 

My mistake was insinuating that it was the mixer's fault somehow.  I didn't really mean to put it on any one person,  it's more of an "in an age of never clip" it's surprising to hear this stuff.   

 

My bad for the wording. But to suggest that because this is a big budget show,  the producers and mixers, and all the high-end crew would never miss a few distorted words is irrelevant to me,  if it's there,  it's there, I hear it a lot across many different movies.  Maybe it's just there on the Amazon stream,  but not on TV...  I wouldn't know, I'd put my money that it's there on all the platforms.   

 

I have heard this on many other productions,  not a big deal. 

 

Again,  Mrs Maisel is an amazing sounding show.  

 

I'm from Australia, sensitivity is something I could work on,  your bullshit meter needs calibration though, I'd suggest reference it to -20 🙈

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On 3/31/2019 at 9:07 AM, Prahlad Strickland said:

I'm listening on Dutch and Dutch 8c speakers.  Something wigged it out.   I notice on many productions.

 

Are you listening always on the same setup at home? Do you notice it just as often with say headphones on a laptop? Or when viewing over at a friend's place? Or in a movie theatre? Etc

 

If it is only on your particular home theatre setup then that very very strongly suggests there is something with how it is setup... 

 

I experience this too often,  for instance with one woman I'm seeing then I'm  frequently fiddling with her setup for picture & sound, only next time over she has reset everything to its defaults... ugh! Like just last night I was complaining about how green the skin tones looked while we were watching Silicon Valley (I know it is not really like that, as I've watched the show many times at home).

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On 4/2/2019 at 12:20 AM, Prahlad Strickland said:

My mistake was insinuating that it was the mixer's fault somehow.  I didn't really mean to put it on any one person,  it's more of an "in an age of never clip" it's surprising to hear this stuff.   

 

I'm from Australia, sensitivity is something I could work on,  your bullshit meter needs calibration though, I'd suggest reference it to -20 🙈

 

Well, being in Europe of course it’s calibrated to -18. 

Still. The issue is not just the mixer, but also the suggestion that only with NeverClip can distortion free tracks be obtained and that Productions may eventually ask for this feature. That is total bullshit. 

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12 hours ago, Constantin said:

....also the suggestion that only with NeverClip can distortion free tracks be obtained and that Productions may eventually ask for this feature. That is total bullshit. 

 

100% correct Constantin. 

 

I would suggest the OP maybe make his way through just some of Matthew’s work some day, he would learn a ton, it is certainly a masterclass in mixing. 

 

 

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On 4/2/2019 at 11:11 PM, Constantin said:

 

Well, being in Europe of course it’s calibrated to -18. 

Still. The issue is not just the mixer, but also the suggestion that only with NeverClip can distortion free tracks be obtained and that Productions may eventually ask for this feature. That is total bullshit. 

 

I actually agree with that, I misspoke,  I often do,  in hindsight, it was way out of line.  I didn't intend it like that.   

 

If an actor changes their mind on a deliver, zaxcom certainly is hard to beat as it will never clip.    That's all I meant,  that there is no better safety guard than zaxcom.  Even if set wrong it won't clip.   The capsule may clip, but not the transmission.  

 

 

 

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On 4/4/2019 at 4:45 PM, Prahlad Strickland said:

 

I actually agree with that, I misspoke,  I often do,  in hindsight, it was way out of line.  I didn't intend it like that.   

 

If an actor changes their mind on a deliver, zaxcom certainly is hard to beat as it will never clip.    That's all I meant,  that there is no better safety guard than zaxcom.  Even if set wrong it won't clip.   The capsule may clip, but not the transmission.  

 

 

 

How much is Zaxcom paying you?

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10 hours ago, BAB414 said:

How much is Zaxcom paying you?

 

I think you’ll find many mixers passionate about the brands they’ve chosen — to the point of religious fervor.  

 

It serves us all well to remind ourselves that these are only tools, and the key is to choose the right tool for the job.  Likewise, a true pro will be able to use the tools at hand to do quality work — whether those devices be 24-bit, 16-bit, or a long strip of plastic with iron rust on it.  

 

Nonetheless, innovations help us up our game and make many of our devices more of a pleasure to use. 

 

On topic — I enjoyed Mrs. Maisel and don’t recall being yanked out of the story by any technical issues. 

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