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Aaton Cantar X1


Mattias Larsen

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I found a very good deal on this. Does it make sense to buy this recorder in 2019?

 

Usually me and my friend are very much run n gun with Mixpre6 or F4, but we are both getting tired of working solo and a cart with more channels would make a lot of sense to complement this style of shooting. Prior to this I have only considered SD gear (or maybe a F8n if all will be wireless anyway) and looked at Zaxcom out of curiosity, but didn't glance at Aaton after seeing the price tag once upon a time. 

 

I am now trying to read up on this recorder, but it's a bit difficult to filter out x2 and x3. The manual I found even covers x1 and x2. I hate to ask this - but what is the difference and how many channels of audio can you record?

 

Would love to hear some first hand experience! 

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Is it only 6 channels (sometimes I see boom mentioned on track 7), can it be expanded by going digital in? I see it mentioned that X2 can do extra tracks via wordclock, whereas the x1 cannot (or has this been changed via FW?).

 

Let's say that the X2 comes up for a good price. Apart from getting another Cantar, could you expand 6 channels via something else (such as a sound card)? 

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It is an eight channel recorder.

 

Sometimes it is configured, using its internal mixing capabilities, to record six ISO tracks mixed to two mix tracks. But, it is entirely possible to record eight independent tracks. 

 

If memory serves (I'm away from home as I write this) there are only five microphone preamps but they are supplemented by four line inputs. The X-2 version supplements this with additional digital inputs. 

 

Details regarding additional capabilities of the X-2 will have to wait until I return home (or someone else addresses the issue) but the Cantar X-1 is assuredly an eight track machine.

 

David

 

 

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27 minutes ago, David Waelder said:

It is an eight channel recorder.

 

Sometimes it is configured, using its internal mixing capabilities, to record six ISO tracks mixed to two mix tracks. But, it is entirely possible to record eight independent tracks. 

 

If memory serves (I'm away from home as I write this) there are only five microphone preamp but they are supplemented by four line inputs. The X-2 version supplements this with additional digital inputs. 

 

Details regarding additional capabilities of the X-2 will have to wait until I return home (or someone else addresses the issue) but the Cantar X-1 is assuredly an eight track machine.

 

David

 

 

Thank you for chiming in! So do I understand you correctly that if you utilise 8 inputs you don't have a mixtrack as that takes up two channels? 8 inputs should cover most of what we do at the moment, but 6 is about the same as we have in our units. 

 

Interesting, does anyone know if the additional digital ins via wordclock on the X2 can be used on individual isos to expand the channel count? 

 

10 minutes ago, Philip Perkins said:

It sounds as good as it did back in the day.  If you have someone available you trust to check it out and maintain it and the track count works for you then rock on.  It's still an amazing machine.

Yeah I have no doubt it is amazing, it's literally the track count I am thinking of, how much of a "practical" upgrade it would be from our little machines. 

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8 hours ago, Mattias Larsen said:

So do I understand you correctly that if you utilise 8 inputs you don't have a mixtrack as that takes up two channels?

 

Sort of. If you use eight channels for individual tracks, there is no track remaining for the mix. But it is possible to record seven tracks plus a Mix track. 

 

David

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14 hours ago, Mattias Larsen said:

Thank you for chiming in! So do I understand you correctly that if you utilise 8 inputs you don't have a mixtrack as that takes up two channels? 8 inputs should cover most of what we do at the moment, but 6 is about the same as we have in our units. 

 

Interesting, does anyone know if the additional digital ins via wordclock on the X2 can be used on individual isos to expand the channel count? 

 

Yeah I have no doubt it is amazing, it's literally the track count I am thinking of, how much of a "practical" upgrade it would be from our little machines. 

not sure exactly what you mean by addition digital ins on word clock... the AES inputs are on DB25 and have SRC, so do not necessarily need to be locked to clock.  You only have 8 recording tracks, period.  What you can do is combine as many inputs as you want onto a recording track though, so you could for example record mic 1 and line 1 on track 1, then use the gain pots to mix the 2 inputs (or more) to a single recording track.  The digital inputs can also be combined with analog inputs, but obviously there is no gain pot for the digital inputs, so gain can't be adjusted nor can they be muted on the Cantar while rolling.

 

One thing to note, you do not have to assign the mix track to a record track for it to be active.  So for example, you could assign digital 1 to 6 to tracks 1 to 6, then mic 1 to track 7 and mic 2 to track 8.  The only problem is that you would never be able to bring tracks 7 and 8 into the mix unless you are using the Cantarem which has 8 faders (other than mixing with the trims).  There are digital direct outputs of the first 6 recording tracks as well as an assignable digital output.  For analog outputs there is a balanced output on XLR5 and a foldback output on unbalanced TA3.  Any of the outputs, wether digital or analog, can be assigned to the mix output OR can be a matrix output of some sort (including inputs that are not being recorded, if you want a communications feed for example). So in this way you could record 8 ISOs, then send the output to a 2-track recorder to record the mix.  In my case I have a Zaxcom IFB200 hooked up to the AES output and in this way could record 8 ISOs and deliver a separately recorded 2 channel mix if it was really necessary, but generally use the Cantar on jobs where 6 sources cover it.

 

I own the Cantar, love it, don't want to replace it with anything else, but when it comes to the Cantar, I think logic dictates that I would never really recommend it to anyone else.  You have to know why you want to use it and not be talked out of using it by common sense.  From a value perspective, it just never really makes sense, unless you are getting a really good deal on it.  I like that I can take it into the rain.  I can honestly say it is the most reliable recorder I've used, beating out every Sound Devices or Zaxcom unit I've driven... not to say I think those are unreliable, just statistically, the % failure rate I've had with the Cantar is lower - but not zero.  Shit happens, even to Cantar.  I like that it is impossible to wash out the meters with sunlight.  I mean literally impossible - you can try, but with the sun in our solar system on the planet earth, you can't do it, you'll blind yourself before the meters are not readable.  I like that there is a menu system that allows lots of flexibility, but once your rolling, the things that you would want to adjust while rolling, are done with tactile buttons, faders, and pots.  You can adjust this by touch and don't need to read a screen, unless you are adjusting limiter or filter parameters (or panning - panning in ENG/reality situations is not easy with Cantar - I do it myself, as I work a fair amount of unscripted, but you have to become adept at holding a boom pole, while pressing a button with a pinky, and then spinning an encoder with your other hand).  Nothing with the Cantar was really designed with "plain logic".  Shit is confusing sometimes.  I still have to break out the manual occasionally when doing something I haven't done before or done in awhile.  Its very "French" I guess, not being an expert on the French.  I can say, though, after years of using it, that I develop a muscle memory and I personally find the operation very easy.  Its just the first time you try to turn it on, you can't.  you look at the manual, figure it out, then after practicing for awhile, it becomes second nature.  Same thing goes with pretty much every other function of the unit.  I would compare it to flying an airplane versus driving a car.  The average person can't jump into a cockpit, figure out how to start the motor and do all the other pre-flight stuff - but after training and experience, you become expert on it, and if you need to do some sort of emergency maneuver, good training and experience will pay off.  Pretty much anybody with any level of training can jump into any car and figure out how to get going.  I'd say that is the Sound Devices approach.  There's something to be said for that approach, but if you go Cantar, throw out any ideas of it being a "logical" journey.

 

by the way, as far as updating for modern age, one thing I did was forget the idea of accessing the HDD via 6-pin firewire and replaced the internal HDD with a PATA CF card reader.  I then put a 128GB SanDisk CF card in it, formatted for 120GB (Cantar won't recognize more).  This has been 100% reliable for me and if I ever needed to replace with main volume, its just a card swap away.  Sometimes when I need to backup content to my main storage RAID, I pull the main card and just use a card reader, rather than the antique firewire connection.  I have also purchased an IDE to CFAST caddy.  I haven't bother to try to install it, but the logic is that if there was some reason for me to go CFAST, I could - haven't seen that reason yet.  DVDRAM is obviously worthless today.  If you do buy a unit, make sure it has the CF removable media bay OR you know where to buy one... as that is the card you will deliver on a daily basis.

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4 hours ago, Tom Visser said:

not sure exactly what you mean by addition digital ins on word clock..

I am not exactly sure either, I remember reading something about it. I looked it up and found two references to it. (see pictures) 

 

Thank you for your thorough reply! Using an external recorder to record a mixdown and 'save' two channels is obvious but I didn't think of it, thanks for the idea. I am used to just put the gain in the ballpark when shooting solo. Maybe I am missing something, but it seems a bit of a shame not to include a mixtrack since the cantar has some lovely faders. 

Screenshot_20190407-124451_Chrome.jpg

Screenshot_20190407-122922_Adobe Acrobat.jpg

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