Dynamic mic for crowd laughs during comedy show

[Nick Ray Harris]

I'm working a show that films standup comics who have live reinforcement in a medium sized venue.

 

They would like the most natural crowd laughs they can get, but previously the problem is bleed from the monitors getting into the crowd mics and then needing to add in post.

 

They cannot turn down the reinforcement because of the live nature of the show. So my instinct is to add less sensitive mics close to the audience.

 

My question is what dynamic mics come to mind that would be wide and sensitive enough to grab a bunch of folks laughing at comedy show, but be able to negate the reinforcement?

 

 

[tourtelot]

Audience mics at a live concert recording?  Don't reinvent the wheel.  Sennheiser 416s or equivalent at the outside corners of the stage.

 

D.

[Nick Ray Harris]

17 minutes ago, tourtelot said:

Audience mics at a live concert recording?  Don't reinvent the wheel.  Sennheiser 416s or equivalent at the outside corners of the stage.

 

D.

 

That's what we did last year

[Kisaha]

Hypers above the audience and further away from the monitors? 

[Wyatt Tuzo]

To me, a dry stand-up act feels un-natural. Here’s what I’ve had success with in the past:

Dynamic hand-held for the comic, multiple audience mics (some directional condensers on the floor, and some omni lavs suspended from catwalks *fairly camera safe) panned and bussed to a stereo group. Apply some side-chain compression to that audience group, with the comic mic as the key input. This will compress the audience laughter a bit when the comic starts speaking again, but allows for everything to play naturally. 

 

I personally want some of the FOH blended into the hand-held all the time... it  sounds right to my brain. 

[nickreich]

for Comedy Club or smaller (ie sub 2000 seater) Theatre venues, I prefer Hypercardioids to Shotguns for audience mics - they 'spotlight' particular audience members less, and it is a bit easier to visually aim the rear-side null to reduce PA spill a bit vs. a 416 or similar with it's stronger rear lobe. IMO there is nothing to be gained by going for a Dynamic over a Condenser mic in this application - when you gain and EQ a Dynamic to get the same sound from the Audience, it'll get the same PA spill as a Condenser if it has the same pattern. The theory that Dynamics 'drop off' more with distance is a bit of a myth. They are typically 'slower' in transient response, which can make percussive applause less jarring, so if you have to be real close with many audience mics, that might be useful.

[henrimic]

I did this kind of shows several times, even live, so no post. I always used hypercardioids that I placed in a manner that the dead angle of the mikes where in the direction to reject the PA. 

 

Also so important to use a lot of mikes. I usually used 8 to 10 mikes so I could cover all the audience. 

 

To cover the first rows, I taped 2 DPA 4060 on the front of the stage  like PZM’s. 

 

With this his kind of setup you can also adapt the width of the audience to the picture. 

 

Not it an easy task but interesting. 

[tourtelot]

I think for the last show, I used 3 pair.  One on the stage, crossed near-audience, one pair wide mid-audience and one pair in the balcony.  Post seemed to have liked that setup; well at least I didn't hear bad back and the show sounded fine.

 

D.

[Werner Althaus]

Are you sure it's bleed from the monitors and not the mains? If it's a combination of the two then you could experiment with throwing the monitors out of phase with the PA and find the sweet spot where they both cancel at the mic.

I'm not a fan of using 416s because of the huge bass response in the rear of the mic, it tends to pick up PA rumble too much for my taste.

There's a lot of different ways to do this but IMHO, usually having to post my own stuff I would advocate to use multiple pairs of different reach and speed from as close to a time aligned position with respect to the PA array. I like MKH 70s for the distant , a pair of cardioid (MKH 40)  for the front and a pair of dynamic cardioid or super cardioid added to taste to get something with a slower response to blend. All three pairs should have the PA array in their null angle and should be in the same plane as the PA to avoid the delay that tends to wash out the dry signal. I know you can time-align in post but it's not the same. I'd then have the house signal up to a base level at all times and chase the audience responses with single mics as long as I don't mess up the image too much.

[Wandering Ear]

Last comedy show I did I think I used 3 pairs of audience mics.  4 along the stage, 2 on the outside corners and 2 spread in the middle, plus a stereo pair above the audience.  I felt it gave me a good balance and control over difuse crowd in the room and direct without focusing on one person's reaction.  

Picking up the PA system on audience mics is inevitable.  If you time align the mics you can play it off as reverb rather than echo, and then adjust to taste.  A dynamic mic won't reduce the amount of bleed.

[berniebeaudry]

Weird, 

This post appears twice and I gave my answer in the earlier post.  I came back to see if there was anymore posts and looked at this one first and wondered where my post went.  Mystery solved.

And here is my original post:  

If you get them closer to the audience the pick up will be more localized and may not yield the results you want.  What are you using for crowd mics now?  I've recorded a few comedy shows for CD release in smaller clubs.  The producer provided me with a Shure Beta 58 for the comedian, a splitter so I could feed the house and my recorder at the same time, and two AKG C-214 large diaphragm condenser mics for the audience.  I was always careful to place the crowd mics so the back of the pick up pattern was towards the speakers so they wouldn't pick up so much of the speakers.  The two AKGs did a great job and they're only $350 each.  I also used a laser level to precisely aim the mics towards the center of the room so I didn't get too much front row pickup.  The result is a very natural sound.  Of course you do get some bleed from the reinforcement but its overcome by the good direct sound from the Beta 58 and the smooth off axis coloration of the crowd mics.  I also made sure the mic stand wasn't wobbly and loose and provided my own mic cord to be sure it was flexible and in good shape.  I would also remind the comedian that mic technique was important and demonstrated how to best work the mic.  They were paying part of the fee for recording so they were willing to listen to my advice.  You may also see if the front of house mixer would be willing to turn down the PA 10% or so if you think they're blasting it.

This is what I did in smaller clubs and if your venue is too large maybe go with four audience mics instead of two.  I recorded three tracks on my Nomad.  Only card compression that I hit very seldom and the project did get posted.