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The new MixPre II are here


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Variable limiters, great! The other features are only nice to have, but not essential in my opinion. Now I´m really hoping for a copy-to-usb-drive update for my first generation MixPre-6 as the argument of differenciation beween the models isn´t true anymore.

 

33 minutes ago, Display Name said:

[...] And lower price. [...]

 

Do we know any prices yet? Couldn´t find any.

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14 minutes ago, codyman said:

32bit recording sounds great but I am envisioning passive aggressive editorial emails regarding the files for the first couple years before it becomes eventually "standard" and expected.

 

Yeah, I’m not expecting that to ever become standard. For internal processing, once in the digital domain - sure. But it’s physically impossible for any existing or future AD converter to ever achieve anything above 21 or theoretically 22 bits of dynamic range, so why waste time and storage space....?

 

Sorry, I know I just opened a can of worms here, and there has been some long discussions about this before. Including plenty of misunderstanding about how analog to digital conversion works.

 

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25 minutes ago, Johnny Karlsson said:

Including plenty of misunderstanding about how analog to digital conversion works.

 

I love that. Instead of arguing a valid (or not valid) point, you can always just argue they misunderstand the basic concept of A-D conversion. 

 

Anyway, I think this should perhaps be discussed in the other thread Jon Tatooles started about 32-bit float. I‘m sure he does not misunderstand how a-d conversion works

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6 minutes ago, Constantin said:

 

I love that. Instead of arguing a valid (or not valid) point, you can always just argue they misunderstand the basic concept of A-D conversion. 

 

Anyway, I think this should perhaps be discussed in the other thread Jon Tatooles started about 32-bit float. I‘m sure he does not misunderstand how a-d conversion works

 

I’m sorry if that’s how you interpreted that.

 

Basically the misunderstanding usually is that more bits and higher sample rates equal higher resolution and better “sound quality”. 

 

As far as I understand, we can’t even take advantage of a full 24 bits at a converter stage. And even if there was such a converter, there are no mics or mic pres in the real world that could give you absolute silence. Even if they did exist, we would need to record in an anechoic chamber with nobody in it, because in reality, there is no place that is completely silent. 

So we have a dynamic range that includes levels from the noise floor up to SPL that would literally kill you. What else would we possibly need in a dialog track?

 

I would not contradict anything Jon says. I will check out that thread.

 

 

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Nice one. I love my gen 1 Mixpre6. This was much quicker than I expected. I occasionally run out of of inputs on my mp6 and have to sacrifice TC in those instances. I feel like all of the new things are nice to haves, but not essentials for what I do.

 

Might eventually get a 10t for high channel count gigs. If they would ever do automix I feel they will kill zoom on about just every point.

 

Guess we can see a new F8 equivalent soon, but they need to spice it up with more than just dual adc. 

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 It feels like those camera companies keep releasing new models, Mark I, mark ii  with improved add on features. They probably figured all out long time ago.  But they wanna consumers as us to buy one, and more and more .... Not fair in my opinion as one of the first gen buyers.

Now, I probably want to sell my mixpre 1, to get new II, because of the Timecode capability. 

Anyways....

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Just now, hiro nakamura said:

Not fair in my opinion as one of the first gen buyers

It's technology, it changes and evolves as time goes on.  It isn't "not fair" that my 2015 Jeep doesn't have all the features of the 2020 models or that my Pixel 2 isn't going to be as good as the Pixel 4 that is coming out.

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Had a quick look online as to the Gen1 prices vs Gen2.

 

MixPre3 Gen2 is the same price as before. But the MixPre6 has a fifty dollar USD price drop, however the 10 has a massive US$400 price drop with Gen2! :-o Whoa. If this has happened a year ago it might have made my decision vs buying the new F8n instead a bit trickier.

 

 

2 hours ago, Johnny Karlsson said:

so why waste time and storage space....?


What time is wasted? Takes the same amount of time for me to press the record button on the 32bit or a 24bit or a 16bit recorder. 
Extra time for the DIT? Nah. We're a rounding error in the grand scheme of things when it comes to how quickly our files transfer across vs the hours for camera's data to be backed up. 

Ditto about storage, in this day and age storage is cheap cheap cheap. And we take up almost no storage at all compared to the files out of the camera. So what does a few extra gigs here or there matter?

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2 hours ago, Kisaha said:

Is it a sad day for Zoom, or an even sad-er for MP I buyers?

 

MP Gen1 has been out for a couple of years, if you were an early adopter then there is no need to be sad. 

As for Zoom owners, well they've been around even longer!

And I mostly see this announcement from Sound Devices as an attempt (a good one too!) by them to close the gap (both in features and price) with the Zoom F series. As I used to think it was an easy argument for Zoom F series for anyone who is an aspiring PSM looking for their main field recorder. I reckon Zoom F series still has the edge by a nose, but it seems it is a lot closer the gap between MixPre series vs F series than it was before. 

Back when I was making the decision between the new F8n and the MixPre10T, it was a comparison I had to at least consider, but in the end the decision was relatively easy to go for the F8n as the better buy for myself. 

But today in late 2019 if I was to do it all over again, F8n or MixPre10 Gen2?? Hmmm... I "think" I'd probably go with the F8n again. But it no longer feels like the slam dunk case for the F8n like it used to be. 

I wonder what is next from Zoom, as they did a lot of really impressive firmware updates with the original F8. Haven't seen anything yet for the F8n, perhaps the F8n might get some tasty firmware upgrades which will leap frog it ahead again? I hope so, the F8n is a fair bit extra power hungry vs the original F8, which makes me half suspect the F8n might have some more powerful grunty processing power under the hood than the F8 had, hope they take full advantage of that!

 

 

2 hours ago, Kisaha said:

I know people they just bought ones. They won't be happy tmrow.

 


Hopefully if they "just bought one" then they're within the return period!

I did read on facebook of a guy who just bought a MixPre yesterday. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Kisaha said:

The MixPre3 mkII seems like a lot better offering than the mkI. 

 


In my eyes the biggest improvements is the MixPre6 Gen2. 

Because internal TC means you can now fully use all Six channels like its name MixPre6 says! Rather than giving up that 3.5mm input any time you want to use TC.

Plus gaining copying to USB thumbdrive helps give that peace of mind you want in your main recorder on a shoot. 

Plus the small price drop is the gravy on top. 

Although the MixPre10T has become the most appealing of them all to me, because of that rather big $400 price drop! Hmmm...  ah well, I won't given into temptation! I've got two lovely recorders already with the F8n and Maxx :-)

While the MixPre3 has remained at the same somewhat high price (hard to buy a MixPre3 when the MixPe6 is only a little bit more), yes it gains internal TC which is great, but it doesn't help the MixPre3 as much as it does with the MixPre6. 

 

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The MixPre3 mkII - except the inputs - is identical to the 6 now and it is the absolutely cheapest video production SD sound recorder. Before it was too "crippled". Check the table under:

 

MixPre Gen 1+2 Comparison Chart

MixPre II vs Original MixPre

1) 32-bit float recording a All models - NO

2) 192 kHz recording a All models MixPre-6 & -10T only

3) Timecode Generator/Reader a All models MixPre -10T only

4) USB file copy a All models MixPre -10T only

5) +18 dBu output MixPre-10 II - NO

6) Adjustable Limiter options a All models - NO

7) Sample Rate recording All MixPre II models
 (44.1, 47.952, 48, 48.048, 
96, 192 kHz)
MixPre-3 (44.1, 48, 96 kHz )
MixPre-6 (44.1, 48, 96, 192 kHz)
MixPre-10T (44.1, 47.952, 48, 48.048, 
96, 192 kHz)

8. ) Pre-roll duration at 48 kHz All models:  10 seconds

MixPre-10T: 10 seconds
MixPre-3 and -6: 5 seconds

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SD posted a detailed explanation on how the 32-bit implementation works and some 32- and 24-bit test samples.

Paul Isacs have admitted converted into being a 32-bit floating believer. :)

 

https://www.sounddevices.com/32-bit-float-files-explained/

https://www.sounddevices.com/sample-32-bit-float-and-24-bit-fixed-wav-files/

 

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5 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

The MixPre3 mkII - except the inputs - is identical to the 6 now and it is the absolutely cheapest video production SD sound recorder. Before it was too "crippled".


I didn't see it as much more crippled than the MixPre6 already was, and the MixPre6 was meant to be its big brother but in reality I didn't see too much separating them. 


MixPre3 not having higher sample rate recordings wasn't a big deal, as we don't usually recorder above 48KHz. 

 

And using the 3.5mm mic input for Timecode is a much much less annoying design with the MixPre3 then with the MixPre6 Gen1 because you're not losing your last two channels of audio like with the MixPre6.


Of course the restrictions on the MixPre6 Gen1 were a bit more annoying as it might more often be considering as a "main field recorder" for some folks starting out and looking for recommendations, while for many others the MixPre3 could just slot in as a secondary supplementary recorder (thus it is less annoying its limitations, such as no 192KHz). 

 

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10 hours ago, Kisaha said:

The MixPre3 mkII - except the inputs - is identical to the 6 now and it is the absolutely cheapest video production SD sound recorder. Before it was too "crippled".

 

The MixPre3 II is the gem in the new series. For that price it really offers a lot in every way and packed in a compact case. If I still had mine, I would upgrade immediately, but I replaced it with a mixpre 6 early. 

 

The new 10 II shines with its price drop. If you looked at it but never bought one before, now is the time. 

 

And the MixPre 6 II, I feel is a bit left behind in value compared to the others. Sure you get 32-bit float, not one but two* more channel if using the built in TC etc. But depending on your use and supporting equipment I’m not sure it renders the same “upgrade” value as the others.

Although I would buy it in a second if I did not own the first one already. 

 

 

* correction you gain two more channels

Edited by Display Name
addition/correction
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8 hours ago, codyman said:

32bit recording sounds great but I am envisioning passive aggressive editorial emails regarding the files for the first couple years before it becomes eventually "standard" and expected.

 

I'm one of the skeptics except for this phrase in a Taperssection post by Paul Isaacs:

 

Having said that, for the majority of sound recording applications and for those who know how to gain stage, 24-bit has always been way more than enough to capture high fidelity recordings when combined with high quality, low noise/low distortion microphones, preamps and ADCs. That hasn't changed. So then, why the big deal with 32-bit float files ...

 

Of course, nothing wrong with making life easier for the user! I can imagine lots of situations in which this can save a lot of time, I guess for example FX recordings. But remember, your dynamic range is limited by the microphone and the noise floors of every step in the signal capture/processing chain. 

 

I can imagine the greatest benefit of the 32 bit files will be that you can't overload the L+R mix, something that can indeed happen with 24 bit files despite having clean, properly recorder ISOs. 

 

Of course not a sad day for me, happy owner of a MixPre 3. It's great to see that the line is being successful and SD are committed to develop it further. 

 

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1 hour ago, Display Name said:

And the MixPre 6 II, I feel is a bit left behind in value compared to the others. Sure you get 32-bit float, one more channel if using the TC etc. But depending on your use and supporting equipment I’m not sure it renders the same upgrade value as the others. 


Two more channels actually. 

Because 3.5mm stereo jack is used up by the timecode input by the MixPre6 Gen1. 
(unless a splitter cable can be used so only one channel is used for TC and the other you could feed an extra wireless to, without worrying about bleed?)
 

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