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The new MixPre II are here

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12 hours ago, Johnny Karlsson said:

I’m sorry if that’s how you interpreted that.

 

Ok, I probably did. Sorry too. 

 

14 hours ago, Johnny Karlsson said:

As far as I understand, we can’t even take advantage of a full 24 bits at a converter stage. And even if there was such a converter, there are no mics or mic pres in the real world that could give you absolute silence

 

I think that’s old wisdom. Analog Devices have a 32-bit converter with a Dynamic range of 148dB. That wouldn’t fit into 24 bits. Similar with SDs new converter that claims 142dB, I believe? Theoretically that would fit into 24 bits, but I believe that at least a couple of bits are needed for the noisefloor and so on, so 24 bit could never get a better dynamic range than 130dB or so, I believe. So simply in terms of dynamic range 32 bits make a lot of sense. 

 

The great thing about the noisefloor isn‘t so much how low it now gets, as long as it is quieter than that of any or most microphones. But more importantly, I think, is the almost endless headroom. It’s next to impossible to clip a 32-bit float converter. 

But the limiting factor is of course the analog input stage and to that end I am quite curious if that can match the converters capabilities. 

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That's a good question, codyman.

 

I'd also like to know:

 

1) How does autocopy to USB work?

I presume files aren't simultaneously recorded to a SD card and a USB thumbdrive. But if I add a file to a project (ie- record a new take, an interview), is each file incrementally copied to the USB drive after recording stops? Or is autocopy on a project-by-project basis (as in: at lunch, plug in the USB drive and everything's copied over)? I skimmed the manual but haven't quite figured out how this works. Can anyone from Sound Devices enlighten me or point me to the right document?

 

2) How hard to jam a box and then switch 3.5mm out to audio for a TX or something?

In the MPII-6, timecode and stereo out share the same 3.5mm connector, right? So if I want to use the MixPre as a master and jam a little TC box from the MixPre (and then stick that on a camera), how many steps does it take to switch the 3.5mm output to stereo audio output? 

 

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3 hours ago, Mattias Larsen said:

You can unfortunately not use a splitter cable and record an input whilst using TC on the other. So yeah, two more channels 

 

You can sort of. I’ve done it before with a tentacle. Set it to record Ch 5 & 6 with no timecode. You use your sync box to record the timecode as an audio source and then use Tentacle Studio to sync. It figures out that Tr 6 is Timecode and uses that to sync. 

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24 minutes ago, codyman said:

Is it possible to use a USB control surface and also have a USB flash drive hooked up for auto-copy simultaneously?

 

With the single USB-A port it is either USB controller or USB flash.

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4 hours ago, Constantin said:

 

Ok, I probably did. Sorry too. 

 

 

I think that’s old wisdom. Analog Devices have a 32-bit converter with a Dynamic range of 148dB. That wouldn’t fit into 24 bits. Similar with SDs new converter that claims 142dB, I believe? Theoretically that would fit into 24 bits, but I believe that at least a couple of bits are needed for the noisefloor and so on, so 24 bit could never get a better dynamic range than 130dB or so, I believe. So simply in terms of dynamic range 32 bits make a lot of sense. 

 

The great thing about the noisefloor isn‘t so much how low it now gets, as long as it is quieter than that of any or most microphones. But more importantly, I think, is the almost endless headroom. It’s next to impossible to clip a 32-bit float converter. 

But the limiting factor is of course the analog input stage and to that end I am quite curious if that can match the converters capabilities. 

 

 

24bit is mathematically 144,5dB of DR

So 32bit float is 1528dB of DR. You need a hell of a good mic preamp to take advantage of it 🙂

 

https://www.sounddevices.com/32-bit-float-files-explained/

 

 

 

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Any speculation as to whether Sound Devices will ever add Dugan Automix to the mixpre series?  Seems like a firmware upgrade could do that np.  Thats one area where the F6 has the MPII 6 beat.  If SD would just throw us a bone and add that feature I'd buy one today.  It would be especially useful without dedicated pots for channels 5 & 6.  There are a fair amount of my gigs where they use the stereo mix as primary.  But I suppose they still want to sell 633s which is what I use currently.  I use Dugan on just about every shoot when running multiple lavs.  Having 6 channels with TC and automix in a unit that compact/light would be a major draw.

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13 hours ago, joshneal said:

Any speculation as to whether Sound Devices will ever add Dugan Automix to the mixpre series?  Seems like a firmware upgrade could do that np.  Thats one area where the F6 has the MPII 6 beat.  If SD would just throw us a bone and add that feature I'd buy one today.  It would be especially useful without dedicated pots for channels 5 & 6.  There are a fair amount of my gigs where they use the stereo mix as primary.  But I suppose they still want to sell 633s which is what I use currently.  I use Dugan on just about every shoot when running multiple lavs.  Having 6 channels with TC and automix in a unit that compact/light would be a major draw.

^This so much! If the MP6 would do automix, it would tick about all of the boxes that makes it a better mixer recorder than the F series. Guess they are afraid it would cannibalize on 6-Series and small to come scorpios? Or who knows - Maybe we just need to wait for a new zoom f8 to come out for SD to push out automix to their mixpres?

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USB auto copy basically copies each take from the SD card to the thumbdrive as soon as it finishes recording.

 

To change stereo output from LTC to audio, about 3 taps of the screen  ~ 2 secs!

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9 hours ago, joshneal said:

 Thats one area where the F6 has the MPII 6 beat.  

 

Except the F6 isn’t even out yet. So I‘m not sure who beat who

 

9 hours ago, Mattias Larsen said:

 Maybe we just need to wait for a zoom f8

 

I‘m not quite sure what you’re talking about? The Zoom F8 has been out for quite some time now

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There are things to like on both brands. For the Zoom the dual card slots, the Hirose and BNC connector for power and timecode, the free upgrades for Ambisonics  for example and for the Mixpre the analogue limiters, the slightly better preamps, the combo jacks on all units (the F6 has only XLR), the nicer overall design... but basically until now it was a matter of price that made the difference for most of the budget orientated people. A 10T was double the cost of an F8n at least in europe. Now with an even better feature set an a dropped price the Mixpre 10 II becomes much more attractive even for people on a lower budget. Well done Sound Devices!

 

Greetings

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11 hours ago, joshneal said:

Any speculation as to whether Sound Devices will ever add Dugan Automix to the mixpre series?  Seems like a firmware upgrade could do that np.  Thats one area where the F6 has the MPII 6 beat.  If SD would just throw us a bone and add that feature I'd buy one today.  It would be especially useful without dedicated pots for channels 5 & 6.  There are a fair amount of my gigs where they use the stereo mix as primary.  But I suppose they still want to sell 633s which is what I use currently.  I use Dugan on just about every shoot when running multiple lavs.  Having 6 channels with TC and automix in a unit that compact/light would be a major draw.

 

That's a good question. Maybe the SOC they used for the original series was too limited and the ones in the series II have more power. The preroll time has been increased to 10 seconds, it's a good hint. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Constantin said:

I‘m not quite sure what you’re talking about? The Zoom F8 has been out for quite some time now

Whops was probably to tired when I wrote that. I mean when a new generation of f8 comes out with 32 bit float, it might make sense for SD to get automix for the Mixpre series. Hopefully we will see it at some point, but I would not be surprised if it is a few years away. 

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It seems like most people that wanted a Mixpre already bought one. I am not sure why SD was so anxious to improve on the first generation, which is great of course, but that may also indicate that 32bit is a lot bigger deal than we may thought before.

 

I was sceptical about it, but now I am going to follow it a lot closer.

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hmm...

actually 32bitf have 1528dB of DR.
however, it have noisefloor below 150dB from peak.

https://forum.juce.com/t/vst-2-4-double-floats/3985/7

 

So actual dynamic range seems to be about 150.5dB to read this

https://dsp.stackexchange.com/questions/38832/more-simultaneous-dynamic-range-with-fixed-point-or-floating-point

 

Of course there is no problem in practical use,

I love SoundDevices, but it is a somewhat exaggerated catchword, I think.

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10 minutes ago, INARI said:

So actual dynamic range seems to be about 150.5dB to read this

 

In fact, Sound Devices claims that it’s 142dB. It’s 770dB of headroom that’s the kicker

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Well, for example that headroom gives you freedom from clipping the stereo mix if you raise the levels of the mix faders too much. 

 

Yes, it’s a huge headroom. But sample formats don’t usually come in tailored sizes, like “I need 27 bits”. And if they are using the arrangement to increase the resolution of low level signals, well, that’s an improvement.

 

 

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Actually I guess the final fromat will always be 24bits. As far as I understand you mix the same way as before, even if you record in 32 bits (at least the readings on the F6 refer to a 24bit scale). It would be a lot of additional work in post if you don't care about the levels during the recording and to have to correct them all later. But you don't need the limiters, or a saftey track. And in case you screw up something, you can always recover it, due to the great dynamic range. That's quite cool, not only for special effects or situations you can't predict.

 

Greetings

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Why would the final file format need to be 24 bit? Almost all, if not all DAWs internally work at 32 bit float. So they can natively handle these files without any need to be manually manipulated. 

I don’t know if video edit software can handle 32-bit float, though. If in doubt just set the MixPre to record at 24 bits. 

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On 8/31/2019 at 3:16 PM, joshneal said:

Any speculation as to whether Sound Devices will ever add Dugan Automix to the mixpre series? 

 

Some sort of automix? Maybe if they feel pressure from Zoom's automix feature in at least some of their F-series recorders.. But Dugan, I'd think maybe not. There's probably a licensing cost to use Dan Dugan's code/tech... And perhaps they'll want to keep such a feature for less price-sensitive products like the 6-series, Scorpio, etc. But this is all just guessing on my part.

 

2 minutes ago, Paul Isaacs said:

Video edit software FCPX (10.4.6) and Adobe Premier Pro can handle 32-bit float, not Avid MC 8.6.5 though.

 

But Pro Tools does, right? So wouldn't it be cool if there was a small free utility that could convert 32-bit float files into something MC can read? Hmm... what would be a good name and version number for such a utility? 😉 #requestsareeasycodeishard

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@ Constantin

 

I meant that the final delivery format will be 24bits, wether it's music, or a movie. For editing it's no problem to do so in 32bits with most software. I think it wouldn't make much sense to have, for example, a piece of music with 32bits because you wouldn't even be able to hear the extrem quiet or loud passages. Already now with 24bits people compress the audio to reduce the dynamic for the listener.

 

Greetings

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In many instances, a broader than 24 bit dynamic range..accessed by lower average levels..might not be welcomed by editors less accustomed to audio massaging.

Many have had feedback about needing more robust waveforms out of the gate.

I wonder if a multiband limiter front end preamp and/or selectable/assignable backup track wouldn't be better advances.

I know I would love the latter for a backup boom track (even if just internally mirroring to a normal track) on 633  when OMB and wireless tracks are going to be self limiting.

Is that not possible?

$.02

 

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On 9/2/2019 at 7:01 AM, Rich Reilly said:

In many instances, a broader than 24 bit dynamic range..accessed by lower average levels..might not be welcomed by editors less accustomed to audio massaging.

Many have had feedback about needing more robust waveforms out of the gate.

 

 

 

The preferred pro workflow is giving the MIX tracks (with TC) to the editors. The mix track can be louder, limited and compressed to help them hear the details.  Edit can be then AAF - exported to Pro Tools, and using Field Recorder Workflow, mix tracks get replaced with proper ISO 32bit (in this case) files, which can be mixed and gain staged to taste....

Well, I am glad that i waited to see this. Using Nomad with nc, i can appreciate not worrying about the gain stage that much... Are the pre-amps the same? What is the consensus about the pres? Wondering if I should go to my old 442 for my sfx and ambience recording.

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