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Viscount Omega

Using shotgun mic indoors

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2 hours ago, Ira Seigel said:

No one here likes DPA or Countryman lavs?

 

Using lavs?

 

Audiophile short answer: I hate the sound of the lavs.

 

Long answer: I hate the sound of the lavs.

 

Yeah, I'm going to have to use them sometimes; e.g. noisy restaurant.  Girls hate having them under their shirt.  It's awkward for an amatuer filmmaker/ sound person.

 

Could you imagine asking a bartender girl to sign a release form, then asking her to go in the bathroom, put a lav under her shirt and then film a scene?

 

Takes massive balls.  

 

Luckily, I got 'em.

 

This is what I'm up against.

 

 

 

  

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7 hours ago, Ira Seigel said:

No one here likes DPA or Countryman lavs?

 

I like the sound of 4071 from DPA. 

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7 hours ago, Viscount Omega said:

 

Using lavs?

 

Audiophile short answer: I hate the sound of the lavs.

 

Long answer: I hate the sound of the lavs.

 

Yeah, I'm going to have to use them sometimes; e.g. noisy restaurant.  Girls hate having them under their shirt.  It's awkward for an amatuer filmmaker/ sound person.

 

Could you imagine asking a bartender girl to sign a release form, then asking her to go in the bathroom, put a lav under her shirt and then film a scene?

 

Takes massive balls.  

 

Luckily, I got 'em.

 

This is what I'm up against.

 

 

 

  

 

100% normal . overly communicate every step of the hands .  Next option is instruct the person how to do it facing away from you . Next option is wardrobe does it . Third option is female crew member assist . 

Not hard or takes cajones.  It’s the job .   

 

Dpa 4063 I’ll use on an Indie film and not boom. .  Had a Sanken cos-11d in a scarf in Times Square almost eliminate all bkg noise after post .  Lavs rule , booms rule , every situation is different .  Gear don’t matter , but our brains do .  Positive thinking usually delivers surprising results . 

 

 

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15 hours ago, Ira Seigel said:

No one here likes DPA or Countryman lavs?

This is about indoor shotguns!!

 

But since you brought it up, as a re-recording mixer, I cant stand the way lavs sound!!

Boom me up Scotty!!!

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3 hours ago, TVPostSound said:

This is about indoor shotguns!!

 

But since you brought it up, as a re-recording mixer, I cant stand the way lavs sound!!

Boom me up Scotty!!!

 

I can't really tell if you're trying to be funny, serious or you're utterly insane.

 

What's your favorite color?  Blue?  I hate blue.  I use blue but I much prefer purple or Hunter Green sometimes. That's all I'm talking about.  Sheesh.

 

Btw, where's that Neutrik convertor you flaunted?

 

<sees vapor mist in the air>

 

Oh, well, gonna have to have Pete V. modify the 435. 

 

No big deal.

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18 hours ago, Viscount Omega said:

Could you imagine asking a bartender girl to sign a release form, then asking her to go in the bathroom, put a lav under her shirt and then film a scene?

 

Takes massive balls.  

 

Luckily, I got 'em.

 

This is what I'm up against.

 

 

 

  

 

Wow, I do this everyday as a doco mixer.

It's a wonder my pants still fit, according to your logic..

 

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2 hours ago, engaudio said:

Wow, I do this everyday as a doco mixer.

It's a wonder my pants still fit, according to your logic..

 

 

Actually, I bet you don't do that everyday as a "doco mixer".  And if you did, the producer would probably call ahead before you got there. 

 

Besides, what kind of person calls themself a "doco mixer"?

 

If I shoot my neighbor mowing his lawn and scoop about 3db at around 1Khz can I also be a "doco mixer"?

  

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9 hours ago, Viscount Omega said:

 

 

Actually, I bet you don't do that everyday as a "doco mixer".  And if you did, the producer would probably call ahead before you got there. 

 

Besides, what kind of person calls themself a "doco mixer"?

 

If I shoot my neighbor mowing his lawn and scoop about 3db at around 1Khz can I also be a "doco mixer"?

  

In the words of my friends at our HR department:" You can call yourself whatever you want"

Are we still talking about microphones?

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16 hours ago, Viscount Omega said:

 

I can't really tell if you're trying to be funny, serious or you're utterly insane.

 

 

 

Im serious, I cant stand the sound of a lav.

Why would I be insane?

 

As I said, the Neutrik connector is for you to find!!!! 

 

Isn't this thread about booming indoors??

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15 hours ago, Viscount Omega said:

Besides, what kind of person calls themself a "doco mixer"?

 


A mixer who mostly works on documentaries. 

The clue is in the name.
 

15 hours ago, Viscount Omega said:

Actually, I bet you don't do that everyday as a "doco mixer". 


I guess this will surprise you, but for many of us putting lavs on normal everyday people is a normal everyday kind of occurrence for us. 

Simply takes a bit of tact, common sense, and thoughtfulness. (3 things which perhaps has sometimes been in short supply in this thread by at least one poster....)

Is part of the job. You do it. 

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I generally like the sound of a decent microphone when and if it has been placed in the spot which will give the result of a lovely representation of the object sound. On a film set (or on AV stuff generally) getting the mic in the best place for sound rather than picture / storytelling is not always or often going to happen. In a studio we have much more leeway.

 

I prefer the sound of a 4060 to a 4071 but that boost has its place. I like the sound of the 4060 and it is a lav. I also prefer (for all the reasons discussed many times) the sound of a well placed boom, but appreciate the ‘other tool’ ...

 

But in the end Boom ME up too - and “Submit Reply” with my apologies for keeping this going!!

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On 9/29/2019 at 2:38 PM, TVPostSound said:

This is about indoor shotguns!!

 

But since you brought it up, as a re-recording mixer, I cant stand the way lavs sound!!

Boom me up Scotty!!!

My understanding of the OP’s question was basically - how do you get a mic close enough to the talent to minimize room ambience. One solution, obviously, is to get the actual mic element as close as possible to the talker, and not bother with overly technical mic choices and kludgy workarounds. A lav is one of those simple solutions. I apologize, however, for not intuiting that the talent was on camera.

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12 hours ago, Ira Seigel said:

how do you get a mic close enough to the talent to minimize room ambience. One solution, obviously, is to get the actual mic element as close as possible to the talker, and not bother with overly technical mic choices and kludgy workarounds.

 

If I prefer mics like the 416 or the MKH 40 or 50 over lavs it's not a problem getting the mic close to the talent until it comes to the wide(er) shots where the boom gets in the way. 

 

I'm going to try the Senn 435 and see how it performs.  Someone said it has somewhat hypercardioid characteristics. Bright and rich like the 416 without the interference tube.  It's not expensive so worth a try.

 

Another (kludgy?) solution is to make the wide shot so wide that I can use the sound from the close-ups in the wide shot during editing and the viewer won't know the difference.  It can be a pain to make it sync though so I'd rather avoid that if possible.

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6 hours ago, Viscount Omega said:

 

If I prefer mics like the 416 or the MKH 40 or 50 over lavs it's not a problem getting the mic close to the talent until it comes to the wide(er) shots where the boom gets in the way. 


yes, of course it’s not a problem to get the mic close if the shot allows, but that’s the whole point, the framing often does not allow the mic to get in close. And what if there is one camera getting a nice close-up, while the second camera is getting a nice wide? So wide you can’t even really see the mouths anymore? How do you get your mic in close now?

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2 hours ago, Constantin said:

And what if there is one camera getting a nice close-up, while the second camera is getting a nice wide? So wide you can’t even really see the mouths anymore? How do you get your mic in close now?

 

You can't.  You have to fire the director.  LOL.  Or use the House of Cards trick and paint out the booms.

 

I don't have a good solution for 2 cameras unless I can get about 3 feet or less of headroom in the wide shot.

 

In my low-budget world, I would use one camera instead of two and shoot the take twice.  The wide take with the mic 6 feet over their heads.  Then the tight shot with the mic 2 feet over.. 

 

If it's so wide I can't even see their mouths then it's easy to substitute the sound from the close-up take.   If I can see their mouths moving it will take a little work to sync it.

 

 

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38 minutes ago, Viscount Omega said:

 

You can't.  You have to fire the director.  LOL.  


yes, it‘d nice if we lived in that kind of a world, where sound rules all. 
 

38 minutes ago, Viscount Omega said:

In my low-budget world, I would use one camera instead of two and shoot the take twice.  The wide take with the mic 6 feet over their heads.  Then the tight shot with the mic 2 feet over.. 

 

yes, it‘d be nice if we lived in that kind of a world, but we don’t. I don’t get to decide how they want to shoot it. So I put a lav on everyone. Because at the end of the day a good lav mic well placed sounds better than a great boom mic miles away. It’s just a reality we have to accept now and live with or look for another job

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1 hour ago, Constantin said:

It’s just a reality we have to accept now and live with or look for another job

 

I don't have that dilemma.  I'm the director.

 

Maybe consult with your director before the shoot.  I suppose it depends on how much they would listen to a sound guy and how approachable they are.

 

Putting lavs on everyone is a smart move to cover all your bases.  I would use the boom too if you can.

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13 hours ago, Viscount Omega said:

I'm the director.


That would explain why you're not understanding  the perspective many of the commentators in this thread are coming from....

 

 

13 hours ago, Viscount Omega said:

Putting lavs on everyone is a smart move to cover all your bases.  I would use the boom too if you can.


Do you recommend also that I press "record" at the start of takes and "stop" at the end of takes as well?

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5 hours ago, IronFilm said:

That would explain why you're not understanding  the perspective many of the commentators in this thread are coming from...

 

 

Of course I understand their perspective.  I was just trying to be diplomatic with him. 

 

But maybe you don't understand sarcasm either.   You're the one who actually thought I didn't know what "doco-mixer" meant.

 

"'It's stands for 'documentary mixer!!!'".  It's in the name, for Gawdsakes!!!!."

 

You don't say.  Never would've guessed that.  

 

Btw, if I find I thread to be moronic and beneath my immense intellectual capacity I tend to skip over it rather than join in the barbaric and doltish conversation. 

 

But that's just me.

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1 hour ago, Viscount Omega said:

I was just trying to be diplomatic with him. 


diplomatic? Why? 
 

1 hour ago, Viscount Omega said:

But maybe you don't understand sarcasm either


oh of course, now it all makes so much sense, you’re just being sarcastic! And I thought you were just an idiot who actually wanted to wrap his mic with tape to improve its sound. I should‘ve known, nobody’s that stupid.
Well done, that one is on us. 

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1 hour ago, Constantin said:

diplomatic? Why?

 

Because if I were in your shoes I would put lavs on everyone too.  I personally wouldn't shoot it that way.  Not saying that way is wrong--you might not have much choice in your scenario-- but I understand why you would do that perfectly well.

 

 

1 hour ago, Constantin said:

oh of course, now it all makes so much sense, you’re just being sarcastic! And I thought you were just an idiot who actually wanted to wrap his mic with tape to improve its sound. I should‘ve known, nobody’s that stupid.
Well done, that one is on us. 


I wasn't being sarcastic about that question and you know that.  I don't think it was such a stupid question, really.  "What if I did this?"  

 

Anyway, that was asked and answered long ago. 

 

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