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frame rate for 744 with canon 5d mark ii


Chris Leone

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Guest BobD

Phillip is right, 

  A test is a test, all things need to be set up the  the same for the test to be valid, or you will be testing only the set up you have....

Test it as you will post it... exactly.... 

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So my editor says both 48k and 48.048 work fine.  I believe he converted the 5D footage to Apple Pro Res like others in this thread have mentioned.  My tests were only 3 minutes long because we'll only be shooting 30 sec. takes throughout the shoot. Maybe longer takes might have some issues.

Thanks again guys  

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  • 2 weeks later...

Can anyone offer any updates from the testing you guys were doing with the D5?  I have a shoot coming up where for a small part of it we will use the D5.  I will be using a non-TC recorder.

Thanks,

Andy

If you are using a non-TC recorder then chances are your only choices in setting up the recording will be bit-width and sample rate.  I'd record 24/48 and let the posties figure it out.  A test before the shoot, with your recorder and the camera and edit system to be used would be a really good idea.

I have heard of a production being shot in LA that has some prototypes of a new model of this camera that shoots @ 24p....

Philip Perkins

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A mixer friend just finished a 2 day shoot with the 5D. He recorded everything on his Fostex FR2LE @ 24/48 no tc. They used a clap slate at the head of every take and also had the camera mic on. Post told him everything sunk up perfectly. Seems to be the same way it was done before tc was invented. Imagine that, everything old is new again.

Eric

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I asked this on ramps but have not received an answer so I thought I'd ask it here.  I want to feed the D5 via the 1/8 mini from my Zaxcom RX.  Does anyone know if the 1/8" mini has power on it and do I need something like Juicelink or Beachtek or can I go directly from my RX into the mini input?

Thanks,

Andy

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  • 2 weeks later...

On a 2 camera 5D job now--new deal (for us) is 30 TC 48k.  They are using Wave Agent to reflag the audio files to 47.952 before conversion and sync in FCP.  We are using a Senn G2 set to transmit guide track audio to the cams.

Philip Perkins

So post is dealing with 30/48k?  or are there other conversions needed Philip?

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So post is dealing with 30/48k?  or are there other conversions needed Philip?

POST, or your post dept. for that job, had better do some tests.  The 2 x 5D job I just did we shot 30/48.  One FCP room synced the 30/48 audio files perfectly to the cameras (which had a guide track and a bloop tone to sync to) and ANOTHER FCP room required that we re-flag the audio files to 47.952 in Wave Agent to get them to stay in sync for the whole 12 min run.  One more time: these sync problems are Final Cut setup issues, not a production sound problem!

Philip Perkins

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POST, or your post dept. for that job, had better do some tests.  The 2 x 5D job I just did we shot 30/48.  One FCP room synced the 30/48 audio files perfectly to the cameras (which had a guide track and a bloop tone to sync to) and ANOTHER FCP room required that we re-flag the audio files to 47.952 in Wave Agent to get them to stay in sync for the whole 12 min run.  One more time: these sync problems are Final Cut setup issues, not a production sound problem!

Philip Perkins

Feel like squeezing FCP.

-->FCP<--

I was referring to post-sound/team.  Sounds like you found a workaround with the 5D setups.  Hooray.

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just found this new piece of gear:

2 XLR inputs, 48V and a not audible tone to trick the automatic gain (if wanted)

The shooters I showed this to hated it on sight--makes the camera really awkward to hold.  The box does nothing about the (crappy) quality of the onboard recording, and only offers monitoring of itself (not of the camera).  The camera is still AGC only, with no manual level setting.  If Canon would add even menu driven manual level control, meters (as in the hacks we've seen) and a headphone jack of any kind, that would satisfy the people who determined to record production sound to this thing no matter how low-fi.  For those that actually care about how their tracks sound double system with a guide track (G2 in the shoe on top or velcroed to the bottom) works great.

Philip Perkins

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http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/Magic_Lantern_Firmware_Wiki

you wrong :-)

by the way the new firmware from canon already been tested for 24 and 25 p  on iron man 2 :-)

so the number of these cameras  you will see on your set only will grow  and of course there will be always  these who will ask you nicely to leave your recorder at home and go straight to the camera  , as it been there since  first sony dv  came to the market .

so better be prepared .

by the way i am buying the lumix :-)

You are wrong if you think most owners of Canon 5Ds will risk their warranties on a non-Canon firmware hack.  The (several) owners I work with have all rejected this idea and are waiting for Canon's update.  I work with these cameras all the time now, thanks, and am very aware of their strengths and limitations.  (I was just offered an indie feature shooting on 2 Ds with the new firmware on 24p--double system.)  I am very well prepared, as I also am for crappy sounding HDV shoots, by rolling my own recorder all the time.  In my post work I have done endless head to head comparisons of the sound from an SD recorder, a 5D, HDV and whatever other video camera you care to mention--the cameras all sound some variation of lousy compared to the audio recorders.  The Lumix looks like it might be a winner--and it's a lot cheaper than a 5D.

Philip Perkins

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maybe this board need to be called  JWSSOUND :-)

know one who already use it for the other reasons then audio ( you know zebra and framing )

the problem it is not brake your camera  but you need to reboot it any time you shut down or change the card .

99.9 % of the work in video business world wide is single system and the double system exist mainly on that board , so you can say  it sounds lousy , not acceptable or you ear is so trained so you can hear the difference from the 10c  monitor have it in their 1000usd plasmas :-)

but  these who hire us dont care or have trained ear as their audience to know that you dont really hear the difference .

by the way my next feature is to video camera only mix ( 900r) with the same company  which  succeed bring the last project to  tribeca  and iam sure it will sound even better as this time they are going with digiprimes instead  ps technics + 35 :-)

( or maybe not as 90% is in polish - ohhhhhhh)

I think I'm understanding about half of what you are saying, but guessing that the part I don't get is probably a smartass insult, so I don't care.

In regards to camera audio vs. recorder audio I doubt your figure of 99.9% on camera very much--that is just not what I see and I don't work on particularly high-end jobs, in fact I see an increase in the use of double system audio not only for reasons of the quality of the tracks, but speed and ease of working on the set (fewer cables) and increasing interest in multitrack audio.  The newer generation of editors is much more familiar with tools like Final Cut, and knows how easy it is to post sync audio in that system, timecode or no--much of the resistance to double system comes from editors who are either lazy or do not understand their tools well.  I'm glad your F900 audio feature got shown at Tribeca, but so do lots of features with terrible sound--I know because I recorded some of them, an on cameras far worse than F900s!  To me the fact that your clients want to use PS Technics 35 and Digiprimes while also using camera audio means that their priorities are out of whack, and there's an opportunity here for you and your audio post people to make your case re: double system if you want to.  For a feature film that will be shown theatrically it makes a big difference to have cleaner, less distorted audio, both in the amount of work needed to make the track sound good in post and in what you end up with after all that work.  I've found that 90 minutes of camera audio wears an audience down and makes them less receptive to your story.  Good luck with your movie.

Philip Perkins

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Oleg, I have a hard time understanding your posts, your jokes, and your dislike of double system sound. Sometimes your posts are intelligent and informative, but when you go off on rants like this, you don't make much sense. Work in Hollywood, New York, and London is not 99.9% single system and if you don't know that then put down the bong or bottle or both. With the 5d Mark 2 double system is the only way to get good sound at this point in time.

CrewC

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I'm not in LA or British Columbia. Far from there....

Of the last 12 days I've worked, 11 were double system: 9 with Reds, all 9 days double system, 2 with 3 of the HVX style Panasonic little cameras, both days double system. the 12th day was with a Panasonic HDX900, for a long form documentary and it was single system.

I'll bet Crew will see many days of commercials shot on the 5D in the near future if he hasn't already. It's a hot item with the agency types.

Best regards,

Jim

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Oleg, chill.  We disagree, ok?  If we do things a little differently here in the US then that's just the prefs of our producers. 

Good luck on your new films, how ever you record them. 

you dont do it differently , your market share (1%)  work that way  .

thanks , i really need it as my booman doesn't speak  POLISH  :-)

OK--check it out: I won't claim to be an expert in the Israeli or even Euro TV market, and maybe you'll realize that a few of us here know more about current practices in California and NY than you do.  You seem to have the idea that the mixers on this board only do USA features or high end commercials etc.:  that is incorrect: we span the entire breadth of production sound work in America and several other countries as well.

I think I'll decide that your remarks about Polishness etc are more poorly phrased ugly insults directed towards people that have different experiences and opinions than yours--something it seems you can't tolerate.  You probably don't care, Oleg, but you've lost me.  Find someone else to insult.

Philip Perkins

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