old school Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Oleg, there is a language barrier and a logic barrier at play here. I see no need to argue with you, your logic, or lack of english speaking/writing skills. If you want to include every video posted on youtube and all the media from every country of the world, all the wedding videos, etc, then maybe double system is less than 1%. If putting down our way of working or mocking us is what you want, then by all means go ahead. Have fun doing so. As for the pro world I know, everyone I know rolls double system if it is a film shoot, a Red shoot, a HD cam or 5d, etc whether we feed the camera sound or not. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 I won't say it, but I don't...... Jim I have worked w the 5D just this week on Tuesday on a commercial. As a owner of this camera I understand the love for it. Today and tomorrow are 35mm. Next week, 4 days 35mm again. Last month we did 2 Red shoots and a f900 as well as film shoots. The Scarlet and who knows what is coming our way. Keeps it interesting.... CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BobD Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 I love Crew..... I went through the same thing weeks ago with my friend from overseas.... Very funny read... Always do double system, for me , not necessarily for them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Not for rent. I use it for a project of mine. I use it like a film camera and record sound to a sound recorder. We call this double system. Works well for me and my needs... Isn't it bedtime in your part of the world? CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Still not sure I understand what you are saying. I am still at work in Pasadena today. It is 6:30 pm on Thursday the 16th of June. Tomorrow is Friday the 17th of June. I have a 7:30 am call in Burbank. Both days are sync sound. Double system. Now it is your turn to write something. I am done. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 no , i done also... Thank goodness. JB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 <<Thank goodness. JB>> LOL!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pscottm Posted August 15, 2009 Report Share Posted August 15, 2009 much of this discussion relates to FCP setup problems.. what about avid? i'm working on a 5d shoot for the first time soon and i'm confused about which TC and sample rate to use. the camera shoots 30, the editor told me the avid will run at 29.97, so which should i use? i'll be using a smart slate.. and since avid can interpret TC from a video clip's audio, i'm also considering sending TC to the 5d's audio input via g2. would this be more advantageous than scratch audio? regarding TC and sample rate, my first guess would be to roll TC at 30, record @ 48,048 and force-stamp the files @ 48. but then i think maybe 29.97/48 would be better. i'm hoping to do a test with the camera but the chances are iffy.. any thoughts or insight on which way to go? many thanks. -scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted August 15, 2009 Report Share Posted August 15, 2009 Time code and film/video speed are two entirely different things but people are constantly confusing them and confused about the difference. Pull up and pull down are used to change the actual playing speed -- and therefore to change the actual duration -- of a recording or video. The main reason this is done is because film (in the U.S.) is shot at 24 frames per second and since television (in the U.S.) -- and therefore most video (in the U.S.) -- is actually 29.97 frames per second, the two aren't compatible. However if you slow down the film by one tenth of one percent (to 23.976 frames per second), you can create six composited new frames (combinations of frames already existing, distributed among the other frames) and record that to 29.97 frames per second video. It's basic math: 24 frames per second slowed down by one tenth of one percent is now running at 23.976 frames per second and 1.25 x 23.976 = 29.97. 1.25 times the 24 frames = 30 frames, therefore, adding the six new frames makes this all work out. Confused yet? The main thing to remember is that THIS process is what requires a speed change and therefore calls for a work flow that accommodates the speed change. Now, back to video. Video is very seldom changed in speed from shooting to editing to outputting back to video. Think of the two different processes -- and work flows -- as film speed vs video speed. Video is normally shot at video speed and STAYS at video speed. There are, however, a few cameras that will actually shoot a true 24 frames per second. The primary purpose of these cameras is to shoot footage that is destined to be scanned to film (at a sizable cost) for projection in a movie theater -- therefore 24 frames per second. Any project that is realistically going to do a "film-out" (scanning the video to actual film) probably has a decent budget and can afford for you to test out the work flow beforehand to make sure everything will stay in sync. Nothing I've said so far is about time code. Time code does not determine video speed, it is simply a way of counting the frames that are there. Again: Time code does not determine video speed. Normally, you want to use a time code rate that corresponds to the video rate. But again, that has NOTHING to do with video SPEED, only how the frames are counted -- just as drop-frame time code DOES NOT drop any frames, it only counts them differently. To answer your specific question, when a video camera says that it shoots at 30 frames per second it almost always means 29.97 frames per second. The camera manufacturers think that if they publish a fraction like 29.97 it will only confuse users, so they simplify it to 30. The reason you would use a 48,048kHz sampling rate is so that when the sound file is played back it will play back at one tenth of one percent slow. When do we need that? When we're matching the audio with something that was shot on film that is being transferred to video. And, we don't always use it then. It depends upon the post production work flow decided upon. I'll admit, I don't know specifically how the new still cameras that shoot video are configured, but a rule of thumb is that if something is shot on video, the safest assumption -- by far -- is to assume that there will not be a speed change. If it IS required, that can still be accomplished later. So, to extend the rule of thumb: When recording audio for video, unless you know FOR SURE a reason to do otherwise, use 29.97 non-drop time code and NO speed change. I hope this write-up clarifies at least a bit more than it confuses. John B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pscottm Posted August 15, 2009 Report Share Posted August 15, 2009 indeed, it clarifies things considerably.. thank you, john, for taking the time. -scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted August 15, 2009 Report Share Posted August 15, 2009 clear indeed, an excellent explanation! so the remaining problem is if the 5D, really primarily a photographic camera-corder* is at still photography 1/30 frame rate, or at video 1/29.97 frame rate, and also how accurate those frame rates are over time. I've heard speculation that there will be a 24 FPS version, and the corresponding questions would apply: integer shooting speeds, or non-integer (video) rates * think: very fast electronic motor-drive still camera!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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