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saadasound

Recording Sound in Loud Environment

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I'm working on a marching band documentary and focusing on the drum core. Spent a day shooting with them already and rolled with a sm57 on the boom and worked out pretty well for loud playing. However, we keep going from loud playing to talking softly. Outside of changing gain DRASTICALLY on a dynamic mic every time they stop playing and start talking, does anyone have any recommendations? I plan on having time to wire at least one person next time with a red dot mic, but there are a ton of subjects we want covered and I'd rather try to boom people.

 

Thanks,

 

Steve Saada

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Assuming the band is actually moving around while they play, and you're the entire department...  can you rig two mics on your boom? The SM57 to one track, gain set for the band; your normal gun or hyper (exterior, right) at a decent level for dialog on another. So the dx track will be overmodded during performance and the mx track will be mostly noise during dialog, but post should be able to sort them out.

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Hi Steve, I’d begin with an obvious one - piggy back two mics on boom both set safely for what you want recorded and record two totally separate tracks expecting unusable rubbish on the unwanted channel - PRESUMING the recorder can do this without trouble. Secondly deal with the anticipated/rehearsed stuff on extra tracks separately if this can be done - so that it is pretty much as good as it can be (I’d still play safe ...) Third (but also first) check with post that whatever you do (ie- multichannel with expected crap as I suggest) can work for them with their system and timeframe - and check fully: editorial might be happy with a crap but hearable mix so long as the mixer can trust the stems. If they are not and need a “mix” then take it from there - levels and limiters but it won’t be as potentially good.

 

Just my basic first thoughts - the last thing I recorded for fun and without trying too hard (=preparing) was our annual brass bands procession / political rally / street party / riot - and even from the safe second floor rooftop position it was more gain riding than I could be bothered with.

 

Hopefully, as always, more and better advice will follow. If you are right in there “with the drum core” the obvious details are: can you get a higher gain (directional?) mic on the boom that won’t get damaged ie diaphragm; can you monitor ok and move around safely; protect your hearing despite all the rest, even if by swapping ears listening mono and periodically plugging the other ...

 

Making any use of preparation time, particularly with instruments (and groups of instruments) you’re not familiar with, is a must.

 

But back to the beginning, for something like this, if you get to communicate with post regarding their expectations you might well either make yourself a hero or save yourself a lot of time! (I am post sound, btw!)

 

Best, Jez 

... ha! 2 minutes later ... same wavelength and (nearly) perfect sync with Jay !

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Are you able/willing to rent one of the new Sound Devices MixPre3/6/10?

 

Seems like a perfect job for this new series of floating 32bit recorders.

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Thanks for all the thoughts! I was thinking about getting a stereo bar and setting up both a SM57 and a 50 for both loud and dialogue. Excuse my possible ignorance, but would it still be safe for the element of the 50 to be subject to all that loud signal?

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On 10/21/2019 at 10:38 AM, saadasound said:

would it still be safe for the element of the 50 to be subject to all that loud signal?

I would not think any physical damage to the mic would occur. It would only distort the sound some if the SPL exceeds 135dB or so.. which is PFL (Pretty F--king Loud).

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8 hours ago, saadasound said:

Thanks for all the thoughts! I was thinking about getting a stereo bar and setting up both a SM57 and a 50 for both loud and dialogue. Excuse my possible ignorance, but would it still be safe for the element of the 50 to be subject to all that loud signal?

Good idea based on the understanding that the 50 will be set for voice and overload

Put each mike on a separate track and tell audio post about it in detail

 

mike

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This sort of trick has worked for me, on whispery>>shouty DX too.  I'd much rather have good correct gain staging with a choice of when to take which than digital technology of any sort in play.   What we did was a piggy back of 2 Schoeps MK41 in the same zep, with diff trim settings.  Things have to get pretty darn loud for the 41 to give up, and it's lighter than a 57.

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1 hour ago, Philip Perkins said:

This sort of trick has worked for me, on whispery>>shouty DX too.  I'd much rather have good correct gain staging with a choice of when to take which than digital technology of any sort in play.   What we did was a piggy back of 2 Schoeps MK41 in the same zep, with diff trim settings.  Things have to get pretty darn loud for the 41 to give up, and it's lighter than a 57.

The schoeps capsule pad ( dz something ) as part of collette system can definitely be protection for capsule overload.  Not sure if the built in pad of the mkh-50 actually pads the capsule or just knocks down the output........  

 

for an an opera gig I used a dpa  6061 dialed the gain to down to handle the outrageous SPLs.   When I listened to regular speaking levels( increasing gain on my panel)  - it was all still there and self noise was manageable.   Dpa was going to make extra reduced unit for opera - but decided not to because of the ability of the 6061 to handle extreme volumes..

 

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18 hours ago, saadasound said:

Thanks for all the thoughts! I was thinking about getting a stereo bar and setting up both a SM57 and a 50 for both loud and dialogue. Excuse my possible ignorance, but would it still be safe for the element of the 50 to be subject to all that loud signal?

Use a M/S mount (or rycote piggyback clips) in a blimp with your 2 mics of choice, that'd be the easiest way to boom the action.

 

 

 

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On 21 October 2019 at 3:38 PM, saadasound said:

Thanks for all the thoughts! I was thinking about getting a stereo bar and setting up both a SM57 and a 50 for both loud and dialogue. Excuse my possible ignorance, but would it still be safe for the element of the 50 to be subject to all that loud signal?

 

The MKH 50 might well distort but won't be damaged. If post are unhappy about a distorted track (edit or sound mix as previously said) then the level filter on the 50 will provide safety and post can push the gain. Regarding the stereo bar I agree with Grant: piggy back the mics and keep it simple for windshielding if needed.

 

Jez

 

Having said all that I would probably put the cut on the 50 anyway : it would make audio generally more usable such that post could make more use of the 50 mic and only have to resort to the 57 when necessary.

 

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Maybe try to contact the mixers for the Netflix doc series Marching Orders? I haven't seen it, but it focuses Bethune-Cookman University's marching band, which IIRC was at least partly the basis for the movie Drumline. 

 

IMDB says:

Series Sound Department 

Edson Alvarez ... sound mixer (12 episodes, 2017)
Brian Bonifacio ... post sound mixer (12 episodes, 2017)
Julio Ortiz ... sound mixer (12 episodes, 2017)

 

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6647696/fullcredits?ref_=tt_ql_1

 

 

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