Jeff Wexler Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 I am going to try and use re-chargeable batteries on the next movie and I need some advice. I think I know the best items to get but I am having a little bit of difficulty trying to figure out the quantities needed and the "workflow" (maybe workflow is a little too big a word, but you know what I mean). I have 12 Comtek receivers and that is where I will start. So, do I need at least 12 x 9 volt batteries and then how many more to handle whatever the re-charge cycle will be. Then on to the slates, 2 Denecke slates, 1 TS-3 and 1 TS-2, both take AA size. Lastly, I know this has been discussed before, how should the production be charged for these? Maybe buy all that is needed, I buy the chargers, then at the end of the production I keep it all? Thanks in advance for any advice from the experienced battery users. Regards, Jeff Wexler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 I guess I'd start w/ 100% redundancy, or twice as many as you need to power everything up. If you only charge production for the cost of the batteries, it seems like over the course of a feature they'd be saving some money, esp if you were using Lithium 9vs in your wireless mics. They should be thrilled to pay for a few sets of batteries and chargers, as well as a small number of backup throw-aways. Philip Perkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason porter Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Jeff, As per the IPowers (9V) the batteries charge in about an hour, but they will power a UM400 for about 4 hours continuous. Assuming they will power Comteks for at least a 12 hour day, you would need 3 chargers to handle 12 batteries. If you know you have 3 to 4 hours before beddy-bye time- you can just get 1 charger and swap as they finish charging (that's what I do for 8 batteries) I use Powerex (2700mah Nimh) AA's in Sennheiser G2's (as director feeds, etc) and they last at least a 10 hour day. You should probably experiment with these to find out actual run times so you can change batteries before they die on you! Most equipment I have used do not have reliable "low batt" indicators when using rechargeables. My charger is the Maha MH-C800s and it charges batteries in about 3 hours (also has a built in conditioner) I have been "recharging" for just over a year and it is fantastic, but I always have a box of 12 9V Procells and 24 AA's in my trunk, just in case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Jeff.... Jay Patterson has tested a variety of batteries and charging systems at Warner Bros. and has come up with a very effective solution. Try contacting him for advice. Laurence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Jeff, Having twice what you need is a good place to start. You should have 2 x iPower chargers and the Maha chargers are great, and you should be able to charge 8 x AA. I expect any production of any length would be happy to make the initial purchase. It will save them money for sure. Frankly, I have decided to "include" expendables in my rental. I negotiate my rate, then ask what is in their budget for expendables. I then ask to just add it on, or I can bill separately for that full amount weekly. I explain I won't go over, and it's much easier than itemizing, etc. So far all UPM/LP have agreed, and don't care what sort of batteries I am using. Some studios will not let you do that, since they do not buy expendables from mixers, so you might need to have them buy your full set-up - chargers and all. If it's a project of any length, as I expect yours is, then they will save money and feel "green" for doing it. And yes, you get to keep them all afterwards!! Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted June 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 The last bit of advice I need from those with the experience already with re-chargeables, with the new, never used iPower batteries I now have, should they all be charged FIRST before use? Thanks. Regards, Jeff Wexler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Looney Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 I think you'll be happy with the change to the iPower batteries. I got some of the new 520 Pro's recently and have been very impressed with their lifespan so far. As a habit, I charged the batteries as soon as I got them and then left them in some TX and RX (Microns) for a few hours to allow them to draw power. I got about 6 hours from each battery and when I used some with a Sanken CUB 01, TX and DC booster for wireless use it was just over 2 hours before I got a low battery indicator. The weight of the batteries might be welcome too as there's a noticeable weight difference in favour of the iPowers. Maybe not an issue for you drama guys but my work day is spent on my feet with a bag strapped to me and a hip pouch so the lighter I can be, the better. 16 iPowers are MUCH nicer that 16 Procells when they're sitting on your hip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johngooch Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 RE: Ipowers. Yes, you should charge them before first use. The chargers are pretty smart. If you put a charged battery on a charger, it will in a matter of seconds tell you that is already charged and does not need anymore charging. Also to make sure that i did not by mistake bump the LI-NIMH switch on the charger, i put a drop of GOOP glue over the switch. The ipower chargers will charge a battery very quickly-my experience, 15-20 minutes. Easily done at lunch. Sometimes i have found that battery needs to be "reset". In this case, the charging LED does not light and it the battery appears to not be connected. I use a key or or tweaker to quickly short the + and - connectors on the battery. This usually puts the battery back in service. Good luck! john. The last bit of advice I need from those with the experience already with re-chargeables, with the new, never used iPower batteries I now have, should they all be charged FIRST before use? Thanks. Regards, Jeff Wexler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidm Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 I have been running around 20 Ipower 9 volts and 70 odd NiMH AA since October 2006. I doubt I have any of the original 2006 batteries still in use. I ran a mix of Powerex and Sanyo AA's but although they are fine when freshly charge, I do find uneven runtime in Lectro SM's if they are left for more than a few days without charge. This doesn't seem to be a problem when using them in equipment such as timecode slates which use multiple cells. On my current shoot I purchased 50 Sanyo Eneloop low discharge AA NiMH batteries. While they are lower capacity, I find the performance consistent. One other feature of the Eneloop's is that they appear to be the correct dimensions for AA batteries. All the high capacity NiMh batteries that I have tested have been oversized compared to Alkaline AA's. Ambient Lockit's and Master Controller's need the alkaline sized AA's. Their timecode slates take the tubby high capacity cells. I have a flat weekly consumables fee that I charge on feature films, television production's and advertising. It's $60NZ (around $35US) per day and covers everything except gaffer tape and rental carpets. I spend it all and there's no consumable items that my department needs that we don't order in. The $60.00 was based on the cost of 9V and AA Alkaline batteries and recording media that I had previously been using. David M Auckland NZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Jeff, it's good to put the new batts to charge once before use. after all, the charge process takes very little time. another thing i have done is rig one of the four bay chargers on my cart, powered through the PSC Cartpower and my custom built Pelican battery (SLA 18 Ah). the DC in for these chargers is 12V which is great - so each time a Tx comes back to the cart the battery inside automatically goes into the charger and a fresh one from the drawer is put into the tx. -vin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Wang Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 is anybody using re-chargeable batteries for lectro MM400C tx ? i used the powerex 2700mah Nihm for it,but it can just work like 2 and half hours,and with a full charged battery,if u don't use it for couple days,the power will gone......and normal AA battery just can use for one hour,energizer Nihm i heard it can run the tx for 4.5hours,but never try it before,it's expensive. any suggestions ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 NiCad and NiMH batteries typically do not retain their charge very long when left unused, although there is a new breed that have been engineered to hold their capacity (Eneloop) though they have slightly lower capacities. Alkaline AA's do not last as long in a TX like your MM400 as the higher capacity NiMH ones, and since that is a full 100mw TX, anything over a couple hours is about right (depending on the usual factors!). The expensive Lithium AA's also last longer than the alkaline AA's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcopenhagen Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 I have been using rechargeable AAs for slates and Lockits for at least 2 years. After trying Sanyo, Kodak, Lenmar, Tenergy, and Powerex, the most consistent performance has been the Powerex. Their 2700mAh performs well in terms of capacity (runtime), consistent charge voltage, and low voltage drop over unused periods. Don't buy cheaper rechargeables. They won't last over time. No experience with the new-ish breed of LVD (low voltage drop), such as the Eneloop. Size: true, the Powerex's are a little bigger. I spent a careful hour with a round file in the battery compartment of my Lockit, and it handily accomodates any AA now. No problems in the Denecke. Lockits can run 2 days if turned off overnight. Denecke slates are good for 2-3 days depending on display brightness. I have yet to buy my own iPowers, but have worked on features whereupon we changed the iPower 9Vs at lunchtime in the Lectro IFBs, put them on charge, then changed end of day for next day's work. That would assure they wouldn't die out in case of potential long hours (ie, 14-16 hr day). I imagine it should all go smoothly for you, Jeff. Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glinton Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 Another AA I've been trying and having very good run times in SM xmitters is the new-ish Nickel-Zinc rechargeables. Ritz camera sells them under the Quantary brand, calling them the "Super Z". Seems to power a single cell SM for as long as the Energizer (disposable) Lithium cell. The only caveat: after charging them, don't let them sit in the charger (unplugged) for more than a day or two... they will drain! Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan H. Chang Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 Also want to thank you Scott Farr for mentioning the Super Z's awhile ago. I just ordered a couple packs of these PowerGenix NiZn AA Batteries, but not from Ritz. There's a Ritz Camera about 3 miles away, but I ordered all of mine from depoteco.com. It's cheaper there as well. Different packaging, but same maker of PowerGenix. PowerGenix 1HR ZiNc 4 Position Charger and 4 AA ($29.99) http://www.depoteco.com/SPD/powergenix-1hr-zinc-4-position-charger-and-4-aa--8000025B-1244226947.jsp PowerGenix 4 Pack AA 1.6v 2500 mWh ZiNc ($12.99) http://www.depoteco.com/SPD/powergenix--4-pack-aa-1-6v-2500-mwh-zinc--8000025C-1244227054.jsp These are going to replace all of my Duracell's NiMh 2650's for high-current equips. I'll still use my Duracells for other things, but these SuperZ's are replacing the entire kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.Rueff Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 hi Jeff, i use only Rechargeable batteries for my sennheiser ( comtek) and this work really good. 2700mah Nihm from sanyo , the can run 4 or 5 day before i must recharge... eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 Hi Jeff, I just started using the iPower 9v's and have been pleasantly surprised by their performance -- that said, as with any LiIon batteries, they do tend to drop off rather quickly when they go -- you may have to adjust how you monitor your tx batt levels on your rx's (if you're using rx's w/ that feature) -- and the older batteries have a much shorter "window" (I was using a dozen new 9v's mixed with a dozen or so older iPower 9v's supplied by a colleague and there was a distinct difference -- both in longevity and charge-time.) I would not use the older rechargeables to power a crucial source (actor tx's, boom tx, etc.)... relegate the older batt's to Comteks and t/b tx's, IFB's, etc. -- not that those are "unimportant" by any means, but I'd rather have a Comtek drop out than the boom mic or an actor's lav mic, right? All in all, they're a great investment and you will feel better for operating a bit greener : ) --tt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
André Boisvert Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 Hi Jeff, I just started using the iPower 9v's and have been pleasantly surprised by their performance -- that said, as with any LiIon batteries, they do tend to drop off rather quickly when they go -- you may have to adjust how you monitor your tx batt levels on your rx's (if you're using rx's w/ that feature) -- and the older batteries have a much shorter "window" (I was using a dozen new 9v's mixed with a dozen or so older iPower 9v's supplied by a colleague and there was a distinct difference -- both in longevity and charge-time.) I would not use the older rechargeables to power a crucial source (actor tx's, boom tx, etc.)... relegate the older batt's to Comteks and t/b tx's, IFB's, etc. -- not that those are "unimportant" by any means, but I'd rather have a Comtek drop out than the boom mic or an actor's lav mic, right? All in all, they're a great investment and you will feel better for operating a bit greener : ) --tt Just to be clear; by older vs newer, to you mean 500's vs 520's, or 500's which have seen many charge cycles vs brand new 500's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan H. Chang Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 The IPowers have been doing well here with Sennheisers and Lectro packs. The 500's, haven't bought any 520's yet. Still going strong after two years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glinton Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 Also, Jeff, you have to be VERY careful with the I-Powers not to let them short out (anytime they're out of the gear) or your investment is down the drain. I haven't bought any of the newer 520 models -- i keep getting mine from Thomas Distributing and they only carried the original style (last time I checked- could have changed now). The guys there poo-pooed the new & improved models, saying the manufacturer was only trying to raise the price while Thomas felt that the "improvement" wasn't enough to justify the cost increase. Sour grapes??? It's interesting to hear from those that get to A-B the new vs. old style. And I think the 520s may come with little plastic battery keepers that help protect the terminals from getting accidentally shorted. You can find these directly from the manufacturer, too (some cool products) @ www.powerpax.net (I like the glow in the dark model :>) ) Check 'em out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 André, I have the 520's -- and yes, the comparison was to the 500's, so probably not the most "level" playing field... and I have to admit I don't know how well (or poorly) the older 500 9v's were treated -- I suppose one or more of them could have even been shorted as described by glinton. All I know is that they were older than mine and didn't seem to work as well -- or take as much of a charge. In any case, the new 520 9v's I have work well -- they're definitely a valuable asset... especially the little plastic keepers -- great idea. I'll be sure to update any noticeable changes. --tt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jay@shootersinc.com Posted June 27, 2009 Report Share Posted June 27, 2009 I have 24 of the 520mA batteries that I have been using for several months now and I'm interested to hear why you feel that shorting the terminals on the 520mA 9V is a bad thing? Sometimes the battery will appear unresponsive when put into the charger or radio and a quick short across the terminals will bring it back to life. I don't know if I learned that from documentation or somebody at Trew but it works. This short of the terminals is a very quick short. Is the short you are describing as bad more of a long term short? Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glinton Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 It very well may have been a long term short that virtually depleted the cell voltage -- too low to make a comeback. But I just raised the concern because after years of throwing dead batteries during a swap into a "deal with later" pile, it was an adjustment to make to treat the "used" batts as still viable and to take an extra step to protect their contacts till you can get them back on charge. I wish I still had my "dead" one to try a quick short to see if I could revive it! I'll definitely give that a try if I ever have a problem from now on - thanks for the tip! Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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