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Lectro or Shure Auto mixer?


jonathan chiles

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I have one of these round table discussion shoots coming up for a non profit organization.

I know this stuff has been discussed ad nauseum but can anyone give me their preference/success rate with using the Shure 810 or the Lectro auto mixer?

I understand the Shure uses gates and probably needs more time to set up whereas the Lectro operates using VCA's and is probably more "plug and play"

As far as mics for the 14 people I plan on using 8 Sanken CUB01's or similar provided I can get my hands on them to rent here in NYC.

Also if anyone knows where to rent an auto mixer in NYC that would be helpful too!

Thanks in advance:)

Jon Chiles

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14 people,  just slit both your wrists.... it's easier than the auto mixer....

I would consider 2 multitrack recorders linked, and an overhead boom for kicks...  14 lavs iso.....  might be a better option...  who knows... 

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Phillip is right, I saw this Dan Dugan auto mixer at NAB.... GREAT unit....  It is the one to use from all I have heard about it...  He was building these himself if I remember correctly and was from the bay area....  Nice guy too...

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Jon,

FWIW:  I have done a few gigs quite similar to yours.  In my case, a dozen people arranged at two long tables and two moderators in the middle.  The producer wanted different mixes to each camera -- Each camera got the full mix on channel 1, then, on the other channel they got whichever area they were covering.  The camera covering table A got a table A mix on channel 2, table B went to channel 2 of the camera covering it and the third camera was on a wide master that received the moderators on channel 2.  There was also a feed sent to another room where the suits could listen. 

I ended up using four or five mixers in order to give them all the variations they wanted.  On the twelve people at the tables, I used two Lectrosonics Automixers -- one for table A and one for table B.

Each person had a lav. 

I don't know how the CUBs would be, but with most table mics (I considered using a bevy of PZMs, but ruled it out quickly after one test), you'll get every thump, bump, paper shuffle, and scrape of anyone touching the table.  If you have enough lavs and mixing channels, I've found individual lavs to be a much better way to do that type of gig.  With my 14, I had several direct wired and a few wireless lavs.

The Lectrosonics Automixers served my needs okay.  I wouldn't say they are outstanding but they helped in my case.  I haven't tried the Shure automixer for comparison.  To go along with what others have said, I have heard that the best is from Dan Dugan.

This week I have a conference with four or five people at the dais and a mic on a stand at the front of the audience for questions.  For this one I'm probably sending the same mixes to all cameras.  I'm responsible for the sound reinforcement in the room, too.  I plan to simply have a wireless lav on everyone and a butt-plug on the audience mic and to mix it live since it's a manageable number.

John B.

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I've done these types of jobs quite a few times.  Mostly table reads.  I did a table read for Desperate Housewives with 16 mics in one room and 9 mics in another.  I learned by fire... it's really difficult to find 25 CUBs in a day or two so I supplemented COS11s for some and they sounded almost exactly the same.  The CUBs have a tiny bit more reach than the COS11s but for all intense purposes there was no noticeable difference. 

To record I used a Mackie Onyx 1640 with a Firewire card and MetaCorder as my main deck and a 788T as my safety.  And the 3 cameras got their desired mixes as well.  this has become my weapon of choice for all the table reads I've done since and I stopped worrying about finding all CUBs.  I own two CUBs and put those on the big-wigs (one mic per big-wig) then I put a COS11 between each pair of speakers on the "back" of the table (top side furtherest from their heads so there's room for their hands, scripts, etc).  To mount them I put a strip of Molefoam on the table and tape the COS11 in their RM11s on top.  Using white tape on white tables they almost don't read on the cameras.

If you have enough wirelesses use them - this saves a couple hours of running cables!  Otherwise get a stagebox/snake and run everything to the box and then just one cable back to your cart.  You'll need Ambient Eumel (or similar) for all the lavs if you go "wired".

I hope this helps.  Good luck.

Tim

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BTW - I've heard nothing but great things about the Dan Dugan as well.  You can get his number from his site and call and speak to him direct. 

Lectro has new auto-mixers coming out too and I think (not positive though) that they're based on the Dan Dugan technology...

http://www.lectrosonics.com/_aspen/aspen.htm

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thanks for all the ideas guys:)

I had read about the Dugan automixers, and will see if I can track one down after the weekend as an option.

I am also concerned I wont be able to find enough Sanken CUB01's for rental and was already thinking of using the COS11's taped down in boundary mode (thanks Planet3:) Another thought I had for mics was getting 8 short cardioids like Neumann KM184's on small table stands to try and get away from hearing too much table/pens/hands/papers. I still quite like the idea of just tracking all these mics to something like a 788T.. and so far the client seems happy for me to do just that.. I have no idea how much of this session will actually get used for the final video piece but if its short I cant see it being too painful to search for clean iso tracks of the important bits.

Jon Chiles

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A Dugan is by far the most elegant solution, and it is available in two flavors, depending on your needs and budget.

I have and use both the Shure and Lectrosonics automixers, and they both do very well, although they work differently, and either one is simple to set up; both have direct outs, too.

it might be easier to find all PZM's (the 'real' ones, or even the Shure ones) than the Sanken Cub's, and the sound differences will be a non issue in your final product, if appearance is a factor...

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