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Trying to change pay


Brain89

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I did a job Friday, Saturday and sunday of last week.  We agreed to 700/12 Saturday and sunday and a half day (350) friday to setup mics in the car to make sure we are ready to roll at 6 am.

 

So saturday we went 13 hours (1 hour of OT).  No problem.  Sunday we were 7 am call, wrapped at 3pm and then we reset gear and downloaded my card till 5.

 

The producer asked that since we didn't do a full 12 hours on Sunday that we cut the half day and to not charge OT.

 

I also took some tracks that needed clean up into izotope rx7 and removed some noise and reverb at no charge....

 

They were great to work with and I really want to work with them again but I dont know how to respond.  Can I negotiate?  If I stand firm on $1750 do I burn a bridge?

 

 

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What they are asking for is completely wrong. You worked 3 days they should pay you for all 3 days of time you negotiated for. Stand firm this is not a client you want to work for again if this is how they treat you. You also should not have done any post production work for them for free as that is not in the standard job responsibilities of a location sound mixer. 

 

Also was your rate 700/12 with gear? 

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Agreed, if the producer pulls stuff like that,  imagine what they’ll do next time when you let them get away with this. 700/12 all in is a fairly low rate already, and with the overtime you should be getting 1867, not 1750, and definitely not 1400 for all three days. I would take that producers offer the same way I would take a slap in the face, because that’s what it is

5 minutes ago, Brain89 said:

Yes.  Forgive me I am new.  For a commercial 500 for me and 200 for gear what should have been charged?

 

664 4 lavs 1 boom and comtek

I don’t know where you are but the rate you should be aiming for is $650 for you and for 4 lavs and comteks I would want at least $400 for gear. I’ll admit I have negotiated for less than that, especially on a multi-day shoot, which is why this surprise “discount” request is so ridiculous. You are already giving them a discount and they should be grateful.

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I didn't see that you said were you are working. In the Midwest of the US for non-union work I get $550/10hr day. When the producer says it's a 12 hour day. I say it's $55*10 plus two hours of OT, $82.50*2. And hold firm on that. Occasionally I lose a job but most say okay. Producers need to pay for what we produce for them. Yes, i accepted less money when i was learning the craft, actually i continue to learn, but we as sound mixers often deal with greater challenges than the camera department. They almost always have at least two people per camera while we often have only ourselves to lav, plant, boom, mix, freq coordinate, manage TC and figure out the audio interface on thier camera and why the return is sounds like crap.

 

I get $50/lectro wireless (i know people who charge $75). I get $50/Sennheiser or Schoeps boom. $40/Senn G3 hop. $30/Denecke tc box. $125 for 4 Comteks. $100 for SD664.

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Charge them what you agreed to up front. Just be straightforward and say you don’t renegotiate after the fact. If you discussed OT after 12 then charge that hour of OT as well. If you never mentioned an OT rate in negotiation the producer probably assumed/hoped that your 500/12 was a flat rate. So that’s the grey area I’d say... if you’re going to discount anything here just drop that one hour of OT depending on if that was discussed in advance. 
 

Also, what kind of job is this? Low budget documentary? Self funded project or a commercial or reality TV type thing? I would take that into consideration. 
 

 

 

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As we say around here: imagine if this producer tried this sort of crap on a plumber who had just worked on his house, or a car-repair shop that had just fixed his car?   A deal's a deal, you put in the time, they pay for it.  There can be mitigating factors that maybe the OP didn't mention, but in general this kind of thing is unacceptable.  I'd suggest keeping the tone friendly and collegial if you can, but make it clear that you expect to be paid the amount agreed on before the job.

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On 2/19/2020 at 6:30 AM, Brain89 said:

The producer asked that since we didn't do a full 12 hours on Sunday that we cut the half day and to not charge OT.

 

I'm mainly producing these days, and I've been in that producer's exact same position. We'll go into OT one day, but then wrap early the next/last day. And as much as I'd like to save money, I pay everyone for the OT and then for a full day. It's not like they can go out and instantly find another gig to fill out their day. And frankly, as much as I'd like to think that we wrap early some days due to my planning and work, it's largely due to the crew's ability to get things done quickly and without compromise. So they earn their pay. And they blocked out a whole day for me. And I want them to be happy to work for me again. And like any producer, I hate to spend money. But even worse than spending money is not spending money when I should.... As in when I book someone for a full day and we wrap early.

 

Things might be different when doing favors for true friends or helping an underfunded but honorable project along. Also, in my experience, these issues tend to be stickier with people spending their own money (as opposed to working off a grant or with a client's or employer's money). So maybe think about that. Was it a self-funded doc or a corporate job (and let's include most nonprofits in the corporate category). But in all cases, it's good to spell things out clearly ahead of time, especially if there's room for misunderstanding by anyone. So like Phil says, keep the discussion collegial, maybe mention your RX7 work, and say that you blocked out a full day for them and need to be paid for that full day.

 

ALSO: I just reread your post. You gave them 7am to 5pm Sunday. You were in their service for much more than a half day. 

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There’s no such thing as a half day, even if they ask for it in advance.

They bought me for the day, even if that’s just to shoot an interview for an hour.

 

Prepping/building kit, loading it in the car, unload, setup, shoot, wrap, load back in the car, commute, unload car, clean/sort gear, charge batteries, back up cards, paper work, invoicing, accounting.... it’s not “just an hour”.
If you have kids, there’s also drop off/pick up at school or daycare (not free) to factor in.


Having managed to “double dip” in the past, I would not recommend even trying it. Too many things are likely to go wrong (change).

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So along these lines but slightly different, I was curious what you all did when it's taken an extended period to get paid? I'm talking much longer than you thought....

 

I was hired by a local DP for a documentary shoot, that had some big name athletes involved. Went up did the one day shoot and turned in my invoice to the producer (who the DP has worked with before), even got my buddy on as the gaffer. It's now been 3 months and nothing, no one has been paid. Reached out to the DP to see if he has been paid yet and he hasn't. Reached out to the producer multiple times now and she keeps telling me she's sick, or bedridden or whatever and will get it out next week. The DP reached out last week again and she told him that it will get paid out this week, but as of yesterday was still being vague about it. I briefly spoke to another mixer I've worked with and he suggested giving her a timeline to pay then filing for small claims, which is the route we (the gaffer and I) are about to take if this doesn't get resolved ASAP. 

 

Just curious if anyone else has experienced this and what they did about it. 

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On 2/19/2020 at 9:52 AM, Brain89 said:

Yes.  Forgive me I am new.  For a commercial 500 for me and 200 for gear what should have been charged?

 

664 4 lavs 1 boom and comtek

 

 

For what you are offering there you should be able to get $650/10 for labor & for that gear package it's easily worth $550/day (broken down as $350 for base kit [recorder, 1 boom, 2 wireless], an additional $150 for the two additional lavs, and $50 for the one comtek). 

At that $700 you are unfortunately being taken advatage of. 

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Having the producer renegotiate after the fact doesn't seem appropriate.  The main point to bring up is that you were booked with him for those days, and that means you potentially gave up other work that could have come along.

 

As far as what are reasonable rates for labor and gear, I'm not quite certain how to play some of the negotiations that go on.  I've seen rates like $550/12 hrs and $200/kit posted as part of StaffMeUp ads, and within 30 minutes of posting they have 10 or more applications.  I've put in quite a number of bids in line with the higher figures, and they often don't go through.  Not everyone is in the same position, experience wise with a lot of established contacts and the same credentials.

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