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Sound on "Public Enemy"


studiomprd

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no one here has brought this up, so U'll stick my feet into my mouth, once again, since both Daily Variety and The Hollywood reporter mentioned the same thing.

THR: " You can't keep them (the characters)  all straight, and a muddy soundtrack doesn't help. Depp had his own sound technician, according to the end credits, but you still can't hear him. Between mumbled lines and busy music cues, much of the film's dialogue is indistinct. "

DV: " it is Mann's way to deliberately pare connective tissue, a strategy magnified here by the unintelligibility of a fair amount of dialogue... Much attention is paid to the quality of the gunshots, the sounds really pop,  "

I have not seen this movie.

I'm guessing that "Mr. Depp's own sound technician" was for his in-ear prompter system...an extra utility tech, perhaps??

I'm also guessing that the excellent Production Mixer had a difficult time on this pic.

OK: fire away!

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" The work he has done speaks well of him. "

absolutely! He is rightfully known as a capable, experienced, and respected top professional...

and

" Michael Mann does it his way and listens to few "

that also is a given! thus I noted that it must have been a difficult shoot for Production Sound; of course on any movie that big, there are lots of alternatives, so we must figure that the final mix was the result of the movie-maker's choices...

and further complications: if Mr. Depp's personal sound person (union position?? a personal PA (aka personal assistant) ?? answering to ??) provides Mr. Depp's lav and wireless TX, then he must also supply the matching RX, right?? and if there are placement issues, they are not the responsibility of the PSM, and up to Mr. Depp's sound person to deal with (or not -- Oh, Boy, I can see conflicts there!)...

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I'm afraid you all have this wrong. Johnny Depp learned about the Q-Aid system from Marlon Brando. I worked with them both on "Don Juan DeMarco" in 1994. Johnny was intrigued by the system and later adopted the concept.

I saw Brando's system for the first time on "The Freshman", 1990. Marlon wore a ComteK transmitter and custom molded Q-Aid. This allowed his assistant to hear Marlon and then with a Comtek Base Station and microphone prompt dialogue cues and even prop cues.

It's Johnny's personal assistant not a PA or Production employee who handles all the logistics. Perhaps the only change is getting an audio feed from the Production Mixer - although I doubt that is needed.

It's all on the Comtek frequencies and separate from the Production Mixer's mix.

On Public Enemies it was Ed Novick who did the Production Sound, the Rerecording Mixer was Kevin O'Connell -- no slouches here!

You just have to ask previous Production Mixers who have worked on a Michael Mann film how much he "respects" their work -- Lee Orloff and the late David Ronne.

I'm sure it goes form intense to very intense and occasionally back to intense.

RL

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yes, by PA there I was meaning personal assistant...

often these PA's are hired and paid, at least during the course of production,  by the production company as part of the actor's contract...

I had numerous chats with both David Ronne and Cary Weitz, his boom operator on Miami Vice, and this is why I suggested that it was at least a difficult shoot!!

ah-ha, so the "wireless mic" that is put on by Mr. Depp's PA is for the PA to hear the talent, and this system isseparate and apart from what the production sound mixer is doing, and thus, also not a union issue...

that takes us back to the reports (I still have not seen/heard this movie) of unintelligible dialog, which would have been an executive decision, during the final mix, eh?

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Keenan Wyatt is Depp's sound technician . He is a 695 member, a qualified boom op and a great guy. Basically any productiion mixer that is hired on a Depp flick brings his own team ( boom & utility ) and also works with Kennan who is already in place as a Depp's sound tech. No Union problems , Kennan is handling all duties that would be done by any other 695 or any other local member. It's like a 4 man crew.

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This is a good change from when I worked with Marlon Brando. Then it was Caroline, his "Executive Assistant" who set up the whole system and operated it, feeding lines and info to Marlon during each rehearsal and take.

By the way, Marlon always had his dialogue well memorized and several times when his system was not working he could do the scene without the extra help. When it was working, I always loved the banter he would have with Caroline (well off set) when he disagreed with her prompts.

I remember one particular funny incident on "The Freshman" and the look on Mathew Broderick and Bruno Kirby's faces when in the middle of a take, Marlon stopped the performance to tell Caroline "No, I lift the expresso cup on the third line, not the second. Please, get it right, Caroline."

No matter what happened, the show always revolved around Marlon Brando. On "Don Juan DeMarco", Johnny Depp would spend hours commiserating with Brando in his trailer - often holding up shooting.

I think that was a pivotal time in Depp's career and his working with Brando definitely had an impact on his future performances.

RL

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Yeah, Keenan had a career as a boom op full time. He hooked up with Depp on a film called "BLOW" or around that time. He basiaclly became a full time sound tech/utility now on all his films . He used to boom for Ed Tise and Paul Ledford . Knows all about sound and has a friendship with Depp.

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If you think that the final mix on this movie was bad, check out "Transformers, Revenge of the Fallen"

Loads of crucial dialogue (well, interesting at least) lost in the effects. Pretty entertaining two hours and twenty minutes though.

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This movie opens wide on the 1st.  

Johnny Depp is a very good actor, and I must admit to enjoying many of his performances.  I love the idea of a personal sound person.  Good for Keenan for getting this gig.  It'd be great to be a "personal" and to enjoy the benefits that go with it.  Kim Catrall's "personal" hair and make-up on a Tier 2 movie I mixed last fall was making almost 3 times what I was making.

Robert

RL - One of my favorite quotes comes from "The Freshman", Marlon Brando - "This is how it's done"

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I respect his acting but I find it a little strange that he uses a personal assistant for these purposes and The fact that his makeup/hair people earn more than the sound mixer seems pretty absurd but that is another topic altogether.

No offense to this great actor but I just don't get the method.

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I respect his acting but I find it a little strange that he uses a personal assistant for these purposes and The fact that his makeup/hair people earn more than the sound mixer seems pretty absurd but that is another topic altogether.

No offense to this great actor but I just don't get the method.

If you want the "star" for your movie then you have to give the "star" what they want. That would include their hair & makeup person, their personal assistant, their personal trainer, their dresser, etc, etc and of course only green M&M's in their trailer.

Eric

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Screening in a small (Private) theater, with a good sound system.

didn't take long to notice "issues":  the dialog had been subjected to some heavy editing, and gating, too.  the ambiance when the gate closed was distractingly gone, and there were also noticeable sync issues as well as the indistinct lines...but the gunfights sounded great!

to sum it up: "Big Sound!", but no prize!  but I'm betting with the quality crew employed, and the resources they had available, there has to be something (someone?) else responsible...

and yeah, all those characters to figure out about!!

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You just have to ask previous Production Mixers who have worked on a Michael Mann film how much he "respects" their work -- Lee Orloff and the late David Ronne.

I'm sure it goes form intense to very intense and occasionally back to intense.

RL

More like: goes from insane to very insane, and then completely off the chart. My hat is off to Ed Novick for knowing how to deal with him.

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Ah, now you see, I got a very different impression of Michael Mann. I worked with him on the post for Manhunter for several weeks, and he wasn't that bad. I've had far worse.

There's no question, it's Mr. Mann's way or the highway, but he was very specific and knew exactly what he wanted. No temper tantrums, no yelling, but definitely a very intense guy. Also very thoughtful -- he had a lot of stories about the production on the show, and could be funny and charming on occasion.

--Marc W.

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I just got back from watching the film. I have never commented on sound quality on this board, but I have to say, that was  the worst bunch of mumbling I have ever not heard. The only dialogue I could hear decently was from the Clarke Gable excerpts recorded 80 years ago. Maybe actors have to perform such poorly written dialogue so often these days that the only way they feel they can say the words is to mumble through them like they have no meaning. The digital cinema images looked just as bad. I kept thinking I was watching a cheap EPK package. Michael has done some decent films in the past but this one really missed the mark both as a film and technically for me. He could have re-released Heat instead. My 2 cents and condolences to the mixer who had to sit through many weeks of doing the best job he could with what he was given.

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The Variety review went out of their way to criticize the cinematography. Mann's defense is that he wanted a modern look for a period film, and while you can argue with that all you want, that's his creative choice.

I gotta say, though, more and more films seem to feature mumbling actors. I dunno if it's me getting older, the mixes, or the theaters, but clean dialog is becoming an endangered species on some features. Strangely, it seems fine on TV.

--Marc W.

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I just saw the film last night at a screening at the WGA theatre.

The sound was bad, but in a weird way. The dialogue was always clean, just inaudible. The best (worst?) example of this was in the car at the start of the picture. It's loud, it's soft, it's loud, it's soft. Very inconsistent.

I don't understand how this could happen. This was a $100 million budget picture. If a take was bad, ask for a second one. If it wasn't discovered until post, whatever happened to A.D.R.? I know it's not easy, but this is a JOHNNY DEPP film.

Another problem was the music. It would be blasting, and as soon as the movie cut to another scene, the music would just cut, as if with a razor blade. A soft fade would have been better.

On the other hand, you couldn't ask for better post-sound. The Remington shotgun blasts were incredible. The trains, automobiles, and artificial ambience were superb.

And although this is a sound forum, I have to comment on the picture. I agree that digital was not the best choice in some scenes. It looked like VHS. The idea of digital can't come into an audience member's mind when they're watching a period film. There was no digital video during the great depression, so why would you want a marriage of new technology that shows itself during a bygone era? That took me right out of the movie and was much more distracting than any of the sound issues.

Such a shame. If you're going to have huge gunfights and flip Packards over; then let me SEE it.

Otherwise, I thought it was a good movie. No complaints about the writing, acting (even Christian Bale), or period detail. Hopefully they'll do a new mix for home video and the picture problems won't show themselves so much on a smaller screen.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I gotta say, though, more and more films seem to feature mumbling actors. I dunno if it's me getting older, the mixes, or the theaters, but clean dialog is becoming an endangered species on some features. Strangely, it seems fine on TV.

--Marc W.

I think part of the reason some mixes for TV work better is that they limit the dynamic range of the final mix, then smash it further when it hits the TV transmission chain. Mumbling actors now seems to be the order of the day. The picture I'm doing right now has one in the lead role. Hope he likes doing ADR...

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I just saw this too.  It seemed that dialog and ambiance was squashed and compressed randomly throughout.  Very weird.  I think I heard everything I needed to, but it was all just very inconsistent.

The picture sucked too.  What I hate about digital is that while some shots look great, others look like they were blown up from MiniDV.  And I hated a lot of the hand-held stuff where I felt like I couldn't see what was happening and I wanted to back up a little to see what was going on.  It was probably intentional, trying the "Children of Men" look perhaps, but poorly executed.

Performances and costumes were nice, when seen and heard.

Robert

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