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Roy

Lectrosonics Vs Teradek WAR

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Hi guys, facing some unusual dropouts on lectrosonics for this particular project with 6 red cameras and 6 Teradeks.
Im using a lectro UCR411A Rx and a Smqv Tx, things look fine and work beautifully, but the moment a teradek comes around, my Phase indicator starts jumping up and down on the UCR411a, and i start getting dropouts, ive tried changing frequencies after rescanning . but the only way things go back to normal again is when i distance myself from the teradek and things work just fine, but when we using 4-6 cams the teradek is all around the place and i start to go nuts to find a sweet spot. is there something to combat this or am i doing something wrong, would appreciate any help u can provide.
i checked with the cam ops and they work in the 5k Mhz range , so its rather strange that block 25 and block 26 starts to go nuts when them teradeks are around, Anyone facing similar problems ???
thanks.
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Yes. It's a pain in the b... The only way i found working is to find a good spot, as you wrote. The worst scenario is a teradek between you and talent. So i try to avoid it. Putting the antennas high could also help but could be tricku in some places. I think it has to do with intermodulation or frequency harmonics. Even different frequency range can cause issues

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Are you sure it happens with all the cameras?

 

A common interference problem is a broken shield on BNC cables used for sending video from cam to video transmitter. I wouldn't be surprised if that's the culprit, but I would be surprised if it was happening on all cameras!

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Hey Barry,

u feel me bro, its driving me insane,

i sometimes switch to G3 A band if it keeps happening,

that for some reason works better than the lectros in  this case.

 

Hey Jason,

The Cams are not affected in the slightest bit, It's the lectros that take the beating,

hence dropout signals get fed to the cams, cos my inputs on the lectros , the phase icon on the UCR411A Start jumping up n down and seem like they are struggling to find a clean path, especially in  small rooms its a torture.

 

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Hey guys,

 

What beats me is why the F**k the cam ops keep the teradek so close to the cams ,

they have 5 Frikkin antennas pointed in all directions, 

When i ask them to distance themselves they say, they tend to loose signal, n it simply beats me HOW with 5 Antennaes u have a weaker signal than my lectros?

The battle is on  since its b een just 3 days of shoot, i have 97days to go.

Please help me find a solution to this problem,

All of you Audio Gurus, any kinda help in any way mentioned i will try.

but i have to fix this . PLEASE HELP . 

Another important thing i forgot to mention is that im using the whip antennae only ,

no shark-fins, as im rather close to talents so i get a good strong signal. but these dropouts are driving me nuts.

My saving grace for these past few days have been my 3-G2500 plug-ons that i use for my boom mics

-

Thanks in advance Audio brothers.

1 hour ago, jason porter said:

Are you sure it happens with all the cameras?

 

A common interference problem is a broken shield on BNC cables used for sending video from cam to video transmitter. I wouldn't be surprised if that's the culprit, but I would be surprised if it was happening on all cameras!

Hey jason,

 

They seem like brand new antennae on all the teradeks,

cables and connectors that feed the video village, is what i have not checked, i will do that right away.

Thank you for your help, will report back ASAP.

 

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1 hour ago, Roy said:

They seem like brand new antennae on all the teradeks,

cables and connectors that feed the video village, is what i have not checked, i will do that right away.

Thank you for your help, will report back ASAP.

Check also the cables running from the camera to the teradeck transmitter

Just turn one teradeck/camera on at a time, go step by step through all of them until a problem pops up. You won't to only change one variable at a time. (or at least, as few variables as possible)

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I got completely wiped out by Teradeks the other day. Transmitter was in a car along with my mics and I couldn't get a signal whatsoever. 

 

Had to resort to the Zaxcom transmitter recordings and they were fine. 

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If they’re getting dropouts from being a little removed from the teradeks, they could also be fighting with each other in the frequency realm. Unfortunately most camera people don’t understand anything about wireless technology, and will continue to bring more and more wireless devices on set that will keep stepping on your gear. It’s a losing battle for us I’m afraid. You can try to educate them, maybe talk to someone above them about the issue, but you yourself need to be well informed beforehand. It sounds like maybe you need to do a little more homework before bringing it up. 

 

What I would do:

A: set up my wireless with sharkfins remoted closer to the talent and pointed away from the cameras. 

 

B: try to convince any stationary cameras to go hardwired. 

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16 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Check also the cables running from the camera to the teradeck transmitter

Just turn one teradeck/camera on at a time, go step by step through all of them until a problem pops up. You won't to only change one variable at a time. (or at least, as few variables as possible)

Thanks IronFilm,

i Got some time out during lunch, got all the teradeks next to my sound cart and tried each teradek at a time 2 of them did not invade my UCR411A path, but the rest of the 4 teradecks started to freak my UCR411A as they booted up , only solution i found was to stay in a spot that all of the 4 teradeks that invaded were away from my line of sight. asked them to get a bunch of new cables as feeds for the next few days ,and have also called for some shark fins to see if it works  better, as i cannot keep dodging 4 teradeks all day. strangely when i switch to G3 systems the problem is no more , also going to try n run cables from my 788t to my UCR411As till up close to talent and far away from them teradeks next

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I think its the antenna phase switching on. Lectro thats freaking out..i got same with srb chsnged from.swith mode (phase anteena mode) to Ratio mode (true diverdity mode) and the ussue went away..try spacing antennas far appart..

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3 hours ago, Roy said:

Thanks IronFilm,

i Got some time out during lunch, got all the teradeks next to my sound cart and tried each teradek at a time 2 of them did not invade my UCR411A path, but the rest of the 4 teradecks started to freak my UCR411A as they booted up , only solution i found was to stay in a spot that all of the 4 teradeks that invaded were away from my line of sight. asked them to get a bunch of new cables as feeds for the next few days ,and have also called for some shark fins to see if it works  better, as i cannot keep dodging 4 teradeks all day. strangely when i switch to G3 systems the problem is no more , also going to try n run cables from my 788t to my UCR411As till up close to talent and far away from them teradeks next


There are a few different models of teradecks, are these all identical models? Or perhaps certain models cause problems and others don't? Can you speak to the camera rental house to see if they can swap out the troublesome teradecks with others they've got in stock to see if you've got any luck? 

1 hour ago, chrismedr said:

What happens if you switch over the cable from a Teradek that is unproblematic to one that is problematic?

110% should be trying this out first though!

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Hey IronFilm,

 

 

Quote

 

What happens if you switch over the cable from a Teradek that is unproblematic to one that is problematic?

110% should be trying this out first though!

 

 

i tried swapping the cables of the teradeks that were not interfering with the lectrosonics with the ones that were, but the problem was not resolved, so i narrowed it down to the teradeks being the main cause, yes they are different models so im gonna ask them to give us the ones that do not invade the lectrosonics path, hopefully if available they co-operated and said they would swap with whatever was available with the camera rental house. Await for that to happen now . Thank you so much for your help.

 

Quote

 

I think its the antenna phase switching on. Lectro thats freaking out..i got same with srb chsnged from.swith mode (phase anteena mode) to Ratio mode (true diverdity mode) and the ussue went away..try spacing antennas far appart..

 


 

Hey Patterson, i tried the option you suggested, behavior was less erratic but the problem was not solved , so here i am sitting as far away as possible from them teradek fro now ,
Especially the 4 of em that are invading block 25 and block 26, Thank you so much for trying to help me out.
Quote

What happens if you switch over the cable from a Teradek that is unproblematic to one that is problematic?

 hey Chris,  i tried what you suggested and the problem still persisted , so narrowed it down to the teradek models, have asked the camera rental house to send me the ones that are not interfering with the lectrosonics blocks. Await the day all goes smooth. it's rather strange as they operating at a much higher frequency .

so its baffling why this interference is still occuring. Thank you for your help, i will update y'all ASAP when i get this under control.

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Does freqfinder allow you to input the teradeck freqs and calculate harmonics and IM for that? Might be a cool feature. 

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Hey guys,

 

Everything is in Limbo due to the Co-Vid 19 outbreak, Had to shut down all operations before i could get to the bottom of this,

will update once we resume work. Thanks for all your inputs and suggestions.

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You might have different levels of lockdown where you are? If they go to a stage where a few small number of people can get together, but large gatherings (such as full crews) are still outlawed, then use that time to get together with an AC or two from the camera department (the DIT too!) to turn on absolutely anything and everything they'd have going on during your shoot. Then you can carefully go through each piece of equipment, and figure out the problem by a process of elimination. 

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3 hours ago, IronFilm said:

You might have different levels of lockdown where you are? If they go to a stage where a few small number of people can get together, but large gatherings (such as full crews) are still outlawed, then use that time to get together with an AC or two from the camera department (the DIT too!) to turn on absolutely anything and everything they'd have going on during your shoot. Then you can carefully go through each piece of equipment, and figure out the problem by a process of elimination. 

Hi Iron Film,

Here in Mumbai India, as of today, it's a complete lockdown with police barricades and curfew all over the city.

So even rental houses are shut. we only allowed to buy groceries (very limited places from 10am-1pm)  and or medicine from pharmacies.

Besides that it's all a complete lockdown, if seen outside of home post 1pm ,

a very valid reason is needed backed by proof of reason to be out of home.

But im sure filming work will not start so early so once lockdown has ceased ,

i might be able to get the key crew involved, to get things sorted before our crew of approx 400 is back onto the floors filming.

 

 

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17 hours ago, Roy said:

Hi Iron Film,

Here in Mumbai India, as of today, it's a complete lockdown with police barricades and curfew all over the city.

So even rental houses are shut. we only allowed to buy groceries (very limited places from 10am-1pm)  and or medicine from pharmacies.

Besides that it's all a complete lockdown, if seen outside of home post 1pm ,

a very valid reason is needed backed by proof of reason to be out of home.


Yes, we've got something quite similar going on here in NZ as well. 
(although, no curfews yet, and although my local supermarket  has had its hours slashed by over half, at least it is not quite as bad as only 10am-1pm! Yikes)

 

 

17 hours ago, Roy said:

 

But im sure filming work will not start so early so once lockdown has ceased ,

i might be able to get the key crew involved, to get things sorted before our crew of approx 400 is back onto the floors filming.


Yup, that is what I'm meaning. 
For instance here in NZ we're at "Level 4" lockdown, but we might go to "Level 3" (or 2) before we drop all the way down to Level 1 and life can get a chance at going back to whatever the new "normal" is. 

So at one of those "in between levels" of lockdown (before full productions start), try and see if you can get those key crew together to test everything  all at once, while you don't have the time pressures of 400 other crew members and cast staring over your shoulder and breathing down your neck!
 

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General question:

Is this „Teradek-war“ still an issue with digital transmitters like A10 or DSQD? Or is it an analog problem?? Or is it even just a Lectrosonics thing??

 

I have to decide if either invest in Wisycom (still analog) or switch to digital in the future...

 

What do you think?? 

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hey guys,

 

we finally up and running , so back to shoot , unfortunately the Cam rental house has been changed due to date issues, 

so a new batch of cams and Teradeks , Not facing any issue now, very unfortunate that i could not dig down to the bottom of the problem.

But it addresses the problem we were facing , it was indeed the teradeks i think. these models that we are working on now are the same

but i noticed a big firmware difference,

These are the latest firmware that these guys are using they say,

and if i am not mistaken those earlier ones were much older firmware, so i am narrowing it down to firmware issues.

Pls do correct me if i am wrong, but this is the conclusion i think that seems the most practical.

On 7/13/2020 at 4:50 PM, TimMey said:

General question:

Is this „Teradek-war“ still an issue with digital transmitters like A10 or DSQD? Or is it an analog problem?? Or is it even just a Lectrosonics thing??

 

I have to decide if either invest in Wisycom (still analog) or switch to digital in the future...

 

What do you think?? 

Hey Tim,

 

Never gotten a chance to use Wisycoms , not easily available even on rental basis here either,

so im not the right person to guide you with this buddy.

but from the specs, it has a few limitations as opposed to lectros. but then again , i am a lil more baised towards analog gear being a studio engineer for years.

try renting both for a couple of times first then take a call would be my honest suggestion.

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On 4/9/2020 at 7:32 PM, Derek H said:

Were you actually  hearing audible hits? Or are you just observing the phase indicator switching a lot? 

Yes, but mainly dropouts , loss of audio,

then if i was getting a signal it seemed as weak as could be,

causing a hissy sound that u get like when your transmitters are squeezing the last 2-5% of the batteries . 

even though they were brand new batts , changed thrice hoping that the batts could be an issue. 

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