Jump to content

Welcome to Marc Wielage


Jeff Wexler

Recommended Posts

Welcome Marc, the more post people the better I say. My name is Crew Chamberlain, but for some reason I decided to post  here as Old School, I guess cause it rhyme's with old fool. I work mostly in the commercial world and have had many conversations with the telecine folks, and for the most part they have been very helpfull. I look foreward to your insights and thoughts.

Regards,

Old School

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I started my career in post and have always had an ongoing dialogue with the telecine operator on my shows.  I feel that we all can benefit from shared knowledge.

Yeah, I totally agree. I mentioned at the local 695 meeting in early June that, contrary to what a lot of production mixers might think, often, we try to fix sound problems in post, and we don't even bother complaining to the producer or even contacting the mixer. It's just easier for us to find a workaround and go with it.

I was telling one of the guys at Coffey Sound a few weeks ago we just wrapped the telecine dailies on a major studio picture where every single day, the timecode and pull-up/pull-down was totally wrong (another 48.048 project). We figured out the drift problems by the second day, and came up with a fix just by modifying the speed of the Fostex 824 (forcing a double-pulldown to make the thing work). I asked the colorist why he didn't mention this to the production sound mixer, and he just shrugged and said, "there've been so many issues with this job, I figured it'd be better not to make any waves." So I can tell you there are some dailies people out there who are trying to help, and are not trying to make trouble for mixers (or anybody else).

I agree, though: just having the mixer have one conversation with the colorist at the beginning of the project is appreciated. Usually we hit a few bumps in the road the first day or two, but we typically will go 40, 50, even 60 days without a problem on many projects. At least, that's been my luck for the last few years.

--Marc W.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Marc,

Welcome to the Forum.    It was nice to meet you and serve on the panel for the 695 Seminar a couple of weeks back.

There is one question I was hoping to ask you but forgot.  We heard from one of the other Telecine or post sound panelist that they still wanted that 8 to 10 second pre-Roll on each take.  However, Mike Paul who talked at length about the capabilities of the Fostex DV-40 and  DV-824 stated that in Telecine the Fostex machines as well as InDaw all "virtualize TC" on the timeline so they will supply running Time code to the edit controller if there is sound for the requested time or not.  And when matching time code in the next file is reached sound playout starts immediately.

If we are only recording on File Based Recorders (No DAT or 1/4" backup)  Why do we need pre-Roll?

The answer I have gotten back is usually an unqualified excuse like "Well storage is Cheap,  why not".  Well, I'll tell you why not.

While in the post world storage may be cheap, however on the set more storage relates to more "Time" and Time is not cheap.

It takes a lot longer to burn an extra 30% of data to Disk at break points and at the end of the Day when we are being rushed to continue shooting or pack up and get on the truck because it is leaving.  CF cards fill up faster and Hard drives need to be reformatted more frequently meaning more full backups are required.  This all ads up. Especially when you are rolling 8 tracks of Isos in case someone may need to pull in a muffled or missed line.  That job in the past was usually done by the dialogue editor and they would pull the clean words they needed from another take or the close up of that person.

And the "Stealth" Pre-Roll that happens on all the Non-Linear recorders (up to 10 seconds of sound before the Record button is pressed is added to the head of the file) can create difficult political situations on the set.  When someone calls for a playback of the previous take and they hear all those private conversations that were happening before the AD called "Roll Sound"  being played back and realize that anything they said while they thought we weren't rolling may be recorded for posterity, the excrement can hit the rotating air mover.

So specifically, why do we need Pre-Roll if we are only submitting random access media?  What function in Telecine or Post work needs that 10 seconds of sound before the slate sticks are hit?  In every dailies screening I've been to, the scenes all start with the click of the slate.  All the rest of the pre-roll sound is tossed at the telecine stage. And of course in Editing they never need to pull dialogue or sound from before the sticks since the actors aren't acting and the sound is contaminated with AD and Crew Voices..

What's up with this continued pre-roll request. 

---Courtney

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 months later...

Sorry I missed this question earlier! (Better late than never.)

So specifically, why do we need Pre-Roll if we are only submitting random access media?  What function in Telecine or Post work needs that 10 seconds of sound before the slate sticks are hit?

Two reasons: if the sound crew isn't aware that a camera has started early elsewhere (very typical in multi-cam shoots), we may need sound for that "moment."

Secondly: though we technically don't require pre-roll anymore for non-linear material, there are situations where, because a file format is bad or there's a compatibility problem with the DV-40/824, we have to play back the file in non "LTC Linked" mode. If we have to resort to that, then we *have* to have at least 5-6 seconds of pre-roll prior to the slate or no one will hear the clap. If the editor doesn't hear the clap, they can't verify the dailies are in sync.

There is also the possibility that the non-linear copy is bad (or failed to roll), and only the backup copy has that particular take. If the backup copy is on DAT, we have to have pre-roll. Often, we don't have the time necessary to dub the DAT to DVD-RAM prior to telecine, so anything that takes time delays our dailies deliveries and makes the producers nervous.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest tourtelot

Hi Marc-

Great to have you here as well as on RAMPS.  An invaluable resorce. 

Two things come to mind when I read this thread; one rave, one rant. 

The rave is that in my experience, the telecine techs have usually gone out of their way to make things go smoothly for me with my producers and have almost always come to me first about issues in dailies.  Why?  Because I always call before we start shooting and make friends.  It really goes a long way toward getting problems solved quickly and without putting anyone "up in the radar" with the production.

The rant is about the pre-roll issue.  If a camera operator starts a camera up early and I don't know he's rolling, every frame he shoots is wasted footage, no matter what.  That is a camera problem, not a sound problem!  Movie making is a team sport.  As well, and while I do anything I can in my power to protect my actors, any shit talked on the set is a bad idea, and no one should do it whether they have a fear of being overheard on not.  That's an asshole problem, not a sound problem.  Five seconds of pre-roll in my machines is for me, so I lessen the risk of falling asleep and missing the stix; and falling out of my chair (always embarassing!).

D.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have taken to anticipating the call to roll, and hitting the big red button when I hear the AD saying things like "Okaaaay everybody..." or other such indicators. It results sometimes in pre-roll of 30 seconds or a minute. Is this something that is easily looked over, or is winding through a minute of pre-roll a pain? The way I figure it, the worst that will happen is I have to use 2 tapes that day, but if it's affecting telecine or post, I will find a better way.

Thanks,

Tom Curley

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have taken to anticipating the call to roll, and hitting the big red button when I hear the AD saying things like "Okaaaay everybody..." or other such indicators. It results sometimes in pre-roll of 30 seconds or a minute. Is this something that is easily looked over, or is winding through a minute of pre-roll a pain? The way I figure it, the worst that will happen is I have to use 2 tapes that day, but if it's affecting telecine or post, I will find a better way.

Thanks,

Tom Curley

I used to do this when rolling on my DAT machine. That's one of the reasons I started using 120min tapes instead of 90min. I figured that what the telecine guy is looking for is for the numbers on the slate and that is better to have plenty of heads than being short...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The thing I love most about the built in pre roll on the Deva is that I don't have to push record until the camera assistant has actually slated, thus not wasting any time or hard drive space while they "hold the roll" and adjust stuff that should have been done before we rolled

Pet peeve along with people who drive the speed limit in the fast lane....

Regards

Mick

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey Mick, greetings. The built in pre roll for me, is worth the cost of the Deva indeed. I hit the big red button when I hear the sticks, never when the 1st ad calls roll sound like he has touretts or an ocd or whatever. I have alot of good friends who are AD's, but in their desire to push the ball down the field, they will roll sound when the set is in chaos with lights still being set and hair n makeup doing their thing...... you know the drill. After 2 plus years w my Deva4 I have alot of things that I like about it, but the 10 sec pre roll and the sound quality of 24bit as compared to 16 bit dat, top my list. Telecine likes it better than the dat and tc Nagra tapes, or so they tell me. Hope all is well @ CSI.

CrewC

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...